General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHeath Mello loses his bid for Mayor of Omaha.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/omaha-mayor-election-symbol-democrats-001401174--politics.htmlMessage sent.
Cha
(319,089 posts)Jno_Gilmor_
(127 posts)Cha
(319,089 posts)But we seriously need to get to work.
GA-6 is demographically hostile so GOTV might not be enough.
We have two great issues right now (for any voter who is not just, well, deplorable), the health care debacle (particularly its impact on employer-provided plans) and the Tuesday Afternoon Massacre. What's more, as much as I wish it wasn't a factor, we have the money.
I know am doing what I can because I am geographically close, but most people in GA-6 don't really care about what people like me think. We do, however, have powerful voices in this race and we all need to support them.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)WellDarn
(255 posts)Is it that a large and important segment of our party will put a Republican in office if Democrats run a Catholic politician (well, unless that Catholic is chosen by an "acceptable" Democrat)?
Is it that a different, but maybe even larger, segment of our party will "teach Bernie a lesson" by openly campaigning against anyone he supports?
Is it that both of these segments are willing to put a cop-loving, "All Lives Matter," racist Republican into a mayoral position (a position with SUBSTANTIAL influence over police practices and NO influence over issues related to choice) in a major US city with 14% black population (heretofore known as "targets"
?
Perhaps you should clarify what message was sent because I will tell you that the people I talk to, the people I live with, the people that best cower every time a cop looks their way are just about over it.
Unity not purity.
Cha
(319,089 posts)our party will "teach Bernie a lesson" by openly campaigning against anyone he supports?"
What?! It wasn't that BS campaigned for Mello.. it was the way he held up the "aggressively anti-choice" candidate as the "progressive" and said he didn't even know who Jon Ossoff was on Election day in Georgia.
".. teach him a lesson.."? maybe he needs to learn from this.
(Thank you.)
Cha
(319,089 posts)Thank you!
Shine the Light on the TRUTH
Enough with the Spinning Already
WellDarn
(255 posts)I hope OUR LIVES are worth you getting that message out.
Tim Kaine sends his regards . . . oh wait, never mind . . . the message had nothing to do with choice, did it?
Cha
(319,089 posts)WellDarn
(255 posts)is a highly respected Democrat and deservedly so, notwithstanding his widely known opinion that a fetus becomes a living being at the moment of conception.
Because Senator Kaine shares that opinion with other Catholic Democrats, like Heath Mello.
Because this massive mobilization to defeat DEMOCRAT Heath Mello has nothing to do with Mello's position on "life" and everything to do with trying to marginalize Senator Sanders and minimize his influence on Democratic Party policies.
Because sacrificing an opportunity to put a Democrat in charge of a city with a black population greater than the national average when Republican's from the Trump on down are basically calling on cities to continue the slaughter of young black males to "purify" the Democratic Party of "leftists" is too great of a price to pay.
Cha
(319,089 posts)Women.
Heath Mello who was an "aggressively anti-choice" candidate did.
Kaine may be against abortion but he votes the Democratic platform and would never throw women under the bus. Mello is just a misogynistic fucking asshole.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... maybe it was interrupted previously. I can't recall if it was this user or some other user... but the whole thing is just a repeat of what's been said before. Or maybe I'm remembering incorrectly... but it sure does seem familiar.
Cha
(319,089 posts)Kaine being just like Mello. It didn't work then and it's not working now. It's simply not reality based.
Howdy
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Us w healthcare now, for relitigating the primaries, or some such. I think a few people get an artificial feeling of power by just punching the alert buttons, and they don't even read the post...because the alert reason is clearly not connected to what the post said.
Personally, I think it should be harder to alert than just impulsively hitting the key. Suggestion: Maybe going to a special place for alerts, posting and identifying, linking the post, and explaining why the post is related to the rule said to be broken. This would save time for the reviewers too.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)A politician's opinion is not one's "position" - that is determined by one's votes.
Kaine's voting record is very pro-choice, and Mello's is not.
Is that clearer?
WellDarn
(255 posts)Let me see if I can return the favor.
Not one of Mello's votes made a difference. They didn't change the outcome.
And personally-held beliefs, matters of conscience, are indeed, "positions"
These are distinctions without differences and the only distinction that mattered to those who were behind throwing this Democrat under the bus was the distinction that Mello was supported by a person who those people STILL blame for 2016.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And if votes that don't change outcomes "don't count" then please explain this reaction from Sanders on a vote that was symbolic?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/01/12/sanders-slams-democrats-who-voted-pharmaceutical-industry/96506340/
I understand you are upset that Bernie didn't get the support you thought he should on this endorsement.
Just own that, please, and don't try to convince yourself that it was a sign of hippocrisy in Democrats that are pro-choice. The "you supported Kaine and he's not really different than Mello because Catholic" whine has been shot down as faulty several times here on DU because of voting records. Which seem very, very important to Bernie when they don't go his way.
Is that clearer?
WellDarn
(255 posts)Oh, heck, let's do both.
I will be glad to when Sanders' detractors explain why they defended those voting for the pro-Big Pharma on the grounds that it was merely symbolic.
But, there's a real answer as well. Sanders criticized those votes not based solely on the eventual impact of the bill, but also because they came from politicians who had accepted large amounts of money from the pharmaceutical industry. The subject of his criticism was as much of money in politics as the bill itself.
That being said, I happen to believe his reasoning in this area are naïve. Taking money out of politics, even though it may well be the right thing to do, cannot be a one way street. Yes, someone like Sanders can raise plenty through little donors, but in local and regional races (for example, the extremely competitive one in GA-6) we need money from any source who will provide it.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And Sanders was well funded by the NRA, so there's that.
And yes, it was symbolic - meant to catch GOP in the act:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2017/01/12/americans_want_to_buy_cheaper_medicine_from_canada_why_did_12_democrats.html
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/12/cory-booker-joins-senate-republicans-to-kill-measure-to-import-cheaper-medicine-from-canada/
So yes, Bernie will angrily denounce anyone who votes a way he doesn't like, but will disregard their voting on issues he doesn't find very relevant - like women's health care. And, yes, it was a symbolic amendment, and yes Mello's votes counted more than that symbolic amendment.
Perhaps you weren't aware that there was an entire law addressing importating cheaper drugs from Canada that was being introduced that would have been far more reaching than this symbolic amendment that was simply to 'catch' infidels in the act, and actually did address the safety issues that were not addressed in the symbolic "gotcha" amendment - that was branded as a Bernie amendment despite being co-written by Amy Klobuchar. Perhaps that was why it got more attention than this:
https://www.klobuchar.senate.gov/public/2017/1/senators-klobuchar-and-mccain-introduce-the-safe-affordable-drugs-from-canada-act
still_one
(98,883 posts)Nebraska is a red state, and he is a Democrat.
The final results were 53% to 46%, and that is a pretty large spread. The election wasn't that close.
I know many here are optimistic regarding Ossoff in the Georgia 6th district, but that is an uphill fight. This was Newt Ginrich, and Tom Prices district after all.
The one interesting dynamic that has changed in that election is there just might be an effect from the firing of the FBI director, but that remains to be seen in an extremely red district in Georgia
WellDarn
(255 posts)Which makes the motivation behind the OP "curious" wouldn't you say?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Cha
(319,089 posts)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Nebraska,_2008
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Nebraska,_2012
emulatorloo
(46,155 posts)Like exit polls for example?
Btw Welcome to DU!
WellDarn
(255 posts)That the OP statement that a "message was sent" by a Democrat's defeat has no place here.
That goes as much for Mello's defeat as any other candidate's defeat.
emulatorloo
(46,155 posts)Now I totally get what you are saying and agree:
That the OP statement that a "message was sent" by a Democrat's defeat has no place here.
WellDarn
(255 posts)I rose to the bait and it all kinda got off track.
Sorry
emulatorloo
(46,155 posts)It's so easy to get sucked into flamebait threads.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)in the legislature. As for Senator Sanders...all we have recently is division and controversy...He should head back to the Senate and work to stop Trump. It will be the fight of his life and ours.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Cha
(319,089 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)that are begging for a chance to get on a soapbox...
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Nebraska.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)drawn between people who think that something as minor as women's health and life has the potential to distract politicians from "illegal wars" and "the keystone pipeline" with their "purist" attitudes and those of us who think that women's lives and health are at least as important.
I wonder if that line was drawn purposefully.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)I was told it didn't matter because a mayor has no say in the environment...really?
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Women are the ones being thrown under the fucking bus again.
There is a huge difference between a politician with personal beliefs who votes with the Democratic platform and a politician that signs laws that will kill women. Which one do you think Mello was? Do some fucking research.
What law did MELLO SIGN?
Oh yeah, NONE.
Oh yeah, that's right, he cast a meaningless vote on a bill whose fate was a forgone conclusion. That's it. OTHERWISE he is a mirror image of our last Vice-presidential candidate.
I wish we could say the same for the Democrats who cued up to vote for the Omnibus Crime Bill (a/k/a the Urban Genocide Act), the ones who voted for the AEDPA, and the ones who cued up to support the whitewashes in Ferguson, Detroit, Cleveland, New York, and Baltimore . . . every one of whom I have supported ANYWAY.
But, then again, I know that in a binary system, winning is everything.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Got it. Heard that before.
Women are sick of being thrown under the fucking bus.
That is the message. That is why you've seen women out in the streets in numbers. That is why we are so fucking pissed. Get used to it. No amount of spinning is going to make this mean what you want it to mean.
10,000 Democratic women have signed up to run for office. You will soon hear us roar.
Cha
(319,089 posts)snip//
Mello co-sponsored a bill in 2009 requiring women to be informed that they could see an ultrasound before having an abortion, a move that national groups appeared to be unaware of until just now. Rewire reports further:
Mello is a sponsor of the final version of a 20-week abortion ban approved by the governor in 2010, and cast anti-choice votes in favor of requiring physicians to be physically present for an abortion in order to impede access to telemedicine abortion care, and a law banning insurance plans in the state from covering abortions. He was endorsed in 2010 by anti-choice group Nebraska
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/omaha-mayoral-candidate-under-fire-says-he-would-never-do-anything-to-restrict-access-to-reproductive-health-care_us_58f8e868e4b018a9ce590a84?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
WellDarn
(255 posts)All 10,000 will get my support.
MountCleaners
(1,148 posts)Because you're ignoring the point of this election's effect on black people - you refuse to address the point.
Cha
(319,089 posts)snip//
Mello co-sponsored a bill in 2009 requiring women to be informed that they could see an ultrasound before having an abortion, a move that national groups appeared to be unaware of until just now. Rewire reports further:
Mello is a sponsor of the final version of a 20-week abortion ban approved by the governor in 2010, and cast anti-choice votes in favor of requiring physicians to be physically present for an abortion in order to impede access to telemedicine abortion care, and a law banning insurance plans in the state from covering abortions. He was endorsed in 2010 by anti-choice group Nebraska
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/omaha-mayoral-candidate-under-fire-says-he-would-never-do-anything-to-restrict-access-to-reproductive-health-care_us_58f8e868e4b018a9ce590a84?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
Cha
(319,089 posts)research. That doesn't work
WellDarn
(255 posts)Cha
(319,089 posts)who was touted as a "progressive" .. and at the same time BS "didn't know who the "Pro-Choice" candidate, Jon Ossoff, for the valuable House seat, even was.
I hope BS learns not to divide.. he didn't think Jon Ossoff was "progressive".. that's a purity test.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/20/bernie-sanderss-strange-behavior/?utm_term=.09342a28e9b7
WellDarn
(255 posts)I think it is a legitimate point to say that calling Mello "progressive" is pretty much whacked. You can be a Democrat and deserving of every Democrat's vote when running against a Republican and be weak on choice but no way, no how, are you a progressive. Bernie is just wrong on that score.
The stuff about Ossoff, though, is just Bernie hating garbage. Bernie did not say Ossoff was not a progressive. Indeed Ossoff is obviously progressive and has not just my support but the support of everyone I know. Unfortunately, in GA-6 I think the support of people who look like me is not much help. I'm good on a phone and not bad with a checkbook though so I am doing what I can.
Btw, when we arr both looking forward, you and I are looking the same way (and I just don't mean the same direction).
George II
(67,782 posts)...regarding ultrasound. You can go with that on Google to see what it was all about.
What is that "Omnibus Crime Bill" that you're talking about? The one way back in the 1990s?
WellDarn
(255 posts)Cha
(319,089 posts)can't handle that Heath Mello was an "aggressively anti-choice" candidate who was touted as a "progressive" by BS.. and at the same time BS "didn't know who the "Pro-Choice" candidate, Jon Ossoff, for the valuable House seat, even was.i
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)BTW, it was way more than one vote:
May 23, 2011 LB 521 Requires Physician Presence During Abortions Bill Passed - Senate (38 - 9) Yea
May 12, 2011 LB 22 Prohibits Insurance Coverage of Abortion Bill Passed - Senate (37 - 7) Yea
April 12, 2010 LB 1103 Prohibiting Abortions After 20 Weeks of Pregnancy Bill Passed - Senate (44 - 5) Yea
April 12, 2010 LB 594 Abortion Screening Requirements Bill Passed - Senate (40 - 9) Yea
May 29, 2009 LB 675 Establishes Procedures for Ultrasounds Performed Prior to Abortions Bill Passed - Senate (40 - 5) Yea
Is that clearer?
https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/103098/heath-mello/2/abortion#.WRMvV4grIdU
WellDarn
(255 posts)May 23, 2011 LB 521 Requires Physician Presence During Abortions Bill Passed - Senate (37 - 10) Nay
May 12, 2011 LB 22 Prohibits Insurance Coverage of Abortion Bill Passed - Senate (36 - 8) Nay
April 12, 2010 LB 1103 Prohibiting Abortions After 20 Weeks of Pregnancy Bill Passed - Senate (43 - 6) Nay
April 12, 2010 LB 594 Abortion Screening Requirements Bill Passed - Senate (39 - 10) Nay
May 29, 2009 LB 675 Establishes Procedures for Ultrasounds Performed Prior to Abortions Bill Passed - Senate (39 - 6) Nay
Same result
Is that clearer?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And here's Corey Booker's voting record on health care:
March 31, 2014 HR 4302 Protecting Access to Medicare Act of 2014 Bill Passed - Senate (64 - 35)
July 16, 2014 S 2578 Protect Women's Health From Corporate Interference Act of 2014 Cloture Not Invoked - Senate
(56 - 43)
So, his getting trashed for refusing to vote for "Bernies'" (and that Klobuchar person) symbolic amendment, and didn't really make a difference to the passing of that symbolic amendment, doesn't take into account Booker's record.
And Sander's vote on the Iraq war resolution wasn't going to make a difference, but he sure does hold it up as a measure of his credibility on it, doesn't he?
So even with your tactic of moving the argument around to "well voting records don't really count if a protest vote wouldn't have made a difference" it still doesn't make the point that others, and not you, are the one who may be talking out both sides of your mouth when it comes to Mello.
Is that clearer?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)The idea that the issues that affect our lives can't be on equal footing with artificially defined "populist economic issues."
That's what's binary.
musette_sf
(10,487 posts)You failed to do your research before posting. Here are the bills he sponsored and voted on, and his votes on those bills. Heath Mello has done a great deal to restrict choice.
LB 1103 Prohibiting Abortions After 20 Weeks of Pregnancy Bill Passed - Senate (44 - 5) Yea
* Co-sponsor of bill
LB 594 Abortion Screening Requirements Bill Passed - Senate (40 - 9) Yea
LB 22 Prohibits Insurance Coverage of Abortion Bill Passed - Senate (37 - 7) Yea
LB 521 Requires Physician Presence During Abortions Bill Passed - Senate (38 - 9) Yea
LB 675 Establishes Procedures for Ultrasounds Performed Prior to Abortions Bill Passed - Senate (40 - 5) Yea
* Sponsor of bill
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)then it really doesn't matter how they voted.
Unless the vote is on the Iraq war resolution, then a protest vote makes you a saint, apparently. And of course, any vote that is against even so much as a symbolic amendment that Bernie takes credit for - then YOU SHALL NOT PASS through the doorway of the progressive club, no matter what your previous voting or progressive actual accomplishments.
Here is the "argument." https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9043233
Ninsianna
(1,354 posts)20 week BAN on abortion? Oh yeah, that was one he sponsored.
A bill to force the physical presence of a physician, to watch a patient swallow a pill, affecting women in under served areas who would then have to travel at great expense to more populous areas? Oh yeah, he did that too.
A bill to prevent health insurance from covering abortion care? Oh, yeah, that's right, he did that too.
And the ultrasound thing? He was on board for that as well.
Yeah, he PROPOSED and SPONSORED legislation that was designed to harm women, that's kind of a big thing, in no way does this have anything to do with Tim Kaine, and it's absolute bullshit to pretend otherwise.
I'm sorry, but you seem to think that bills that Mello himself created out of thin air due to his right wing extremist beliefs that sought to sadistically punish and harm poor women in rural areas and force them to pay more for basic care, is somehow a "true progressive".
He's not. We don't owe you or any other purity progressive who seems to think he's got some god given right to tell us all what an actual progressive is, ANYTHING.
So anyone who thinks women need to hand over our human rights, our basic right to parity for coverage of our medical needs for the insurance WE PAY for, our rights to access medical care without being forcibly raped by right wing extremists who wish to jam a probe into our bodies against our will, and charge us for the privilege can go f* themselves.
It appears that you do not understand that "winning" doesn't mean supporting the most horrible candidate with a record of seething misogyny who sought to kill and torture women, require state sponsored rape and to charge us for the privilege. It's pretty binary, if this is "progressive", then just stop pretending already and embrace Trump and the right wingers, these are what they stand for, what they fight for, and "winning" with such a person is not winning at all.
This was a bad candidate and those who endorsed this asshat and wasted time, attention and support on him have exposed who they are, and the women who were watching, and who do the damned work for this party and for progressive and liberal values saw what they did, we do not forgive this, we do not forget how easily we were betrayed or by whom.
No amount of whining, false equivalences or purity-splaining will make us forget. Unreliable allies are not allies, and our basic human rights are not up for auction for the most pure white man with a history of trying to force his misogynistic personal vies onto the bodies of women will not be easily forgotten.
Those pink hats you saw en masse around the world, that wasn't about the purity brigade, those were women, and men who respect and love women, and they were out there for women's basic human rights. I guess those who were busy attacking Planned Parenthood as the "establishment" didn't pay attention to which shade of pink that organization uses and why the women of the resistance chose it.
We did our research, we know who Mello was, and what he stood for, and it's MEANINGLESS to ask us to swallow the bullshit and the lies, he was no progressive. He was anti-women and pro-Keystone, and that's not progressive by any actual definition of the term, regardless of the purity of the men who so falsely and stupidly anointed him.
Keep making dumbass decisions like this and the delicate darling men of the supposed left will feel the wrath of the actual left, and those whose work enables it to exist.
Pissing off women is a stupid thing to do and oh yeah, Mello and his buddies did exactly that.
WellDarn
(255 posts)It was well-known. Nobody disputed it.
You also established that you are a one-issue voter who cares more about purity on the issue of choice than you do the fact that Republicans control all branches of the federal government and almost enough state governments to call for a constitutional convention (and, btw, to eliminate choice entirely because the FIRST amendment the Tea Party will add will declare constitutional fetal personhood).
You also made the point that Bernie was off the beam when he called Mello "progressive" because you cannot be anti-choice and progressive. In fact, you can't accept the Constitution and still be anti-choice because a woman's right to control her body and any fetus which is part of her body is not merely "within the broad penumbra of rights" implied by the 4th Amendment as the Court said in Roe, it is EXPRESSLY GUARANTEED by the 4th Amendment.
Except for the "choice is expressly guaranteed/Roe didn't go far enough" part, not one thing you just spit out was anything less than obvious.
Is there any other obvious fact that you feel the need to explain to me?
By the way, in THIS party women and men do the work together.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Just as "purity" on following the Constitution, not violating campaign contribution laws, supporting desgregation of schools and voting rights are basic for the Democratic party.
Saying consensus of medical professionals is a "social issue" and not a medical and public health issue is just as "progressive" as saying that climate change is a "political issue."
Voting in contradiction to the medical profession consensus is indeed as right wing as voting against the consensus of climate change scientists.
Insisting that we respect both physicians and climate scientists doesn't fall into the realm of "purist" it falls into the realm of fact and basic health care. Dismissing those as anything other than core principles "goes off the beam" of progressives.
And it's men who are doing that dismissing, and they will find that women, who are now a majority in the party, will fight that.
Kleeb will find herself on the fringes if she keeps on simply carrying the water for these men.
WellDarn
(255 posts)That choice is one of those issues upon which everyone who claims the mantle of liberal must agree. My point has never been otherwise. In fact, from a Constitutional standpoint, no liberal can even concede that choice is merely an "implied" right under the 4th Amendment for IMHO to do so is to concede that women are less than persons under the Constitution . . . a concession which every liberal must necessarily find reprehensible.
I'm not sure I have been clear about this. Mello's position on choice should be abhorrent to liberals and whether it's Kleeb or Bernie saying otherwise, well, they are just wrong. What I have been trying to get across is that, as a black man, I walk into voting booths time and time again to vote for folks who applaud Darren Wilson and cops in general, welfare reform, drug bills etc which have led to the deaths of thousands of people who look like me, some of which I knew. I do so for one reason, because I know a Republican will kill even more of us.
I'm sorry, but I just disagree that we should be happy, satisfied, or empowered when any Democrat loses to a Republican
I know I don't have that luxury and, though male and though my opinion on the subject honestly does not matter, I don't think women do either.
Btw, thank you for your post.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Misrepresenting someone's statements or argument does not give you any credibility.
With anyone.
Not you . . . The OP . . . Remember . . . It began with a link about Mello losing and then said "Message sent"
You aren't going to say I described the OP unfairly, are you?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)So, yeah, you did describe the OP unfairly.
WellDarn
(255 posts)On that one.
But thank you for the explanation
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)I don't think so.
I can read it. And it doesn't say what you claim it does.
But thank you for "the explanation."
WellDarn
(255 posts)to a story about Mello losing and then state "MESSAGE SENT?
Same question as my very first post, friend . . .
WHAT "MESSAGE" WAS SENT???
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)I think if you look at the name on the OP, you will see it is not mine, friend.
If you want to pick a fight, go find a mirror.
Is that message clear enough for you?
WellDarn
(255 posts)Unfortunately I already asked the OP and received no answer. Now that I know that your claim that I had not accurately characterized the OP was made despite your inability/unwillingness to even state what it meant, I will inquire no further.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)moriah
(8,312 posts)... reinstating the "Mexico City" policy. Casey got royally bitched out by Catholic authorities but defended the vote as supporting contraception and the idea of preventing unplanned pregnancy as the way to stop abortions, not a governmental payment for foreign abortions.
I really didn't care about a potential Mayor's position on choice. If he ran for a higher office than that he'd better be doing some fast talking, though.
And while I am extremely pro-choice, I wish that Casey could actually accomplish something he said he wanted -- some initiative to reduce abortions by moms who would rather not abort but see no financial way to have the child. I think he was too idealistic to expect Repukes to actually get on board, but it shows that the vast majority of truly "pro-life" people in politics are Democrats. The ones who rejected funding for young moms to be able to keep going to school, increases to the suffering state block grant programs for child care assistance, etc, are simply anti-choice, not pro-life.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)holding up like Simba in the Lion King by the outreach director of the Democrats as a metric for "truly progressive."
Especially seeing as it would very likely cause rifts in various groups within the party.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Would be an offensive choice to the vast majority of Dems. Almost seems like trying to draw a line in the sand- against Dem women.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Women out there 70-80% of the time by all counts- showing up, making calls to congress, going to airports to defend immigrants. I have seen slight mentions of this, and have seen it with my own eyes. This SHOULD be a wake up call for the party. But somehow many are hell bent on ignoring us in favor of our oppressors in the "rust belt". I've had enough.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)by those that feel validated by November, despite all that we know now.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)More going backwards. We're carrying the bulk of water, get behind us or fuck off already.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Just return white straight men to the high earning jobs, and they will generously let the rest of us be a part of things.
And they'll stop the wars and welcome immigrants - just like they have in Europe!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Simultaneously claiming it's "for everyone" is galling. Granted many have claimed discrimination is a thing of the past, so there's that too.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)I think this is why Sen. Sanders requested that the 'unity' tour stop there.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Who got it totally wrong about Mello's "position" - which in political terms means voting record - being "the same" as Biden's or Kaine's?
"I think it was a mistake for Tom Perez to say that he disagrees with Heath Mello, which he said in that statement," Kleeb said. "Because [Mello's] position is the same as Joe Biden's, as Tim Kaine's, many other pro-life Democrats. that is, they personally, because of their Catholic faith, or because of other reasons, their personal stories, [are pro-life]."
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)in the 'big tent' with help from Nina Turner.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)But they can't run for office on a Democratic ticket with any success, because they won't be welcome.
Certain people should have learned that by now, instead of continuing to reduce women's health to a "social issue."
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)moriah
(8,312 posts)Notwithstanding that Kaine has always rejected, even when he was getting bad NARAL grades, restrictions on abortion that aren't in line with Roe v Wade despite personal views, while Mello co-sponsored legislation without an enforceable "health and life" exception.
Bob Casey is a more clear case in point. PA, a state that as a Southerner I assumed must be more liberal and progressive than Arkansas but apparently am wrong, had Dems put up Casey to take Santorum's seat. In the Senate he used an opportunity after he knew Obama would veto the legislation to vote for cloture on a 20-week bill with only a life exception, an opportunity Kaine skipped because of no health exception. Though Casey got on with the caucus on the Mexico City policy vote and took heat.
But Kaine was HRC's running mate, so he's the target.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)So his "opinion" is transformed into some sort of "proof" of "hypocrisy" for anyone pointing out Mello's actual voting record.
Prepare for more of this...
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)visit with Ossoff...don't know ft he would help or hurt...some say the latter...but he should not have gone to Georgia at this time...timing is everything.
R B Garr
(17,984 posts)It's like some are intentionally missing the context to keep a certain narrative going.
Cha
(319,089 posts)the reality of what actually happen.
It's ridiculous.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Not at all.
It IS the message that was sent by the very people who cast it aside the minute it would call for voting for a candidate supported by Sanders.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)End of file.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Criticizing abandoning women's health is not "purity," it's simply being a "Democrat."
Demonizing politicians with a long history of progressive, Democratic action who vote against a single symbolic amendment is a "purity" test - and one implemented by someone who refuses to join the Democratic party.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)The primary is over, and the election is over. We have more important tasks.
George II
(67,782 posts)...of this post since you ask "what message is that" yet then you post a list of the "messages".
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)WellDarn
(255 posts)Where its 56,000 black residents (at least at some point within the last decade) face a greater risk of being killed than in any other city in the US, a risk compounded by the election of a Republican mayor.
Thanks for asking . . . and caring.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)carried the day in a traditionally conservative city.
The DNC did send Sanders and Perez, and give money, to try to elect him, and many other Democrats, such as Pelosi, lent their support.
Unfortunate for our unity, SOME people have become very excited, very misdirected I believe in this case, over the threats to women's rights that are actually posed by the right wing. Imo, they were as foolish as any trumpsters in their rush to attack at Democratic candidate and ignore Mello's excellent ratings by women's rights groups.
Also unfortunately, Sen. Sanders seems to have become something of a lightning rod for those people who blame him for our loss in 2016. He tried, but his involvement did not help Mello.
However, let's face it, even if we did everything right Mello would probably have lost. Conservatives are still very united against us, even if divided against each other, and this is a conservative city.
To blame the Democratic Party for conservative votes is as foolish and counterproductive as all the rest. I do agree inflexible "purity" notions and intolerant "you're either with us or your against us" divisiveness simply cannot succeed in the Democratic Party. We are the very definition of diversity and represent a huge range of Americans.
We are the very definition of
WellDarn
(255 posts)I have no particular love for Mello, other than that I have a personal interest in getting Republicans out of mayoral positions in cities with large black populations.
I agree that this was going to be a difficult race, regardless (as is GA-6), but the fact is that difficult races are made impossible ones when we can't come together.
Otherwise, I pretty much have to agree with everything you have said.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)because I share it to some tired, resigned degree. My guess is I could be a few decades older than you, but in any case, we're more united now than I've ever seen us. IF only. It's like gravity, though. For better and worse.
The virtues of liberals and others on the left pretty much guarantee that all major Democratic Party factions simply can't set aside our differences to form into one cohesive team oriented in dutiful opposition of "the other."
And that's conservatives' huge advantage and very dangerous fault--that they can.
WellDarn
(255 posts)but an even harder one to deny.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)GOP...because if this guy is the 'new' Democrat...that is what we have done. His positions are GOP. After all the stuff said about the third way and Hillary Clinton during the election ( which was bullshit by the way). You have progressives like Sen. Sanders and others supporting candidates like Mello that are not progressive at all...I don't get it.
"Mello had cast himself as a next-generation Democrat focused on economic opportunity, while embracing GOP-friendly ideas such as public-private partnerships as a way to solve the city's vexing streets problem. "That's the future of the Democratic Party, in my mind, looking at that pro-growth, progressive, future-focused mentality."
alarimer
(17,146 posts)Right here all the fucking time.
Now, because this guy, whatever his pros or cons, is not good enough simply because Sanders endorsed him, we are told it's okay that he lost.
Those of us who are not crazy about mainstream Democrats are told to "suck it up- ANY D is better than ANY R." We apparently are only allowed to draw a line in the sand when it comes to abortion. Not about fair pay, saving SS, single payer, or anything else.
yardwork
(69,364 posts)First, I don't vote in Omaha, so I didn't have the right to cast a vote in this mayoral election. If I had been able to vote, of course I would have supported the Democrat. I always do. Unlike certain others.
Second, abortion rights as an issue is not more important to me than other planks in the Democratic platform. They're all important. Being a Democrat means supporting Democratic positions. All of them.
Third, I would never applaud the loss of a Democrat just because somebody else endorsed them. That would be stupid.
So at least three of your accusations are wrong.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Women's rights are Human rights.
alarimer
(17,146 posts)And it has been consistent when it comes to this particular race.
Not all Democrats support all of the platform all of the time. I hear all the time that it's okay that Joe Manchin, say, supports Trump's appointees because he is from WVA and it's a red state, blah, blah, blah. And that he is better than whatever R would replace him. No doubt that's true.
We are also constantly urged to support blue dogs in red states simply because that's all we are going to get. So I see a considerable amount of hypocrisy when it comes to this particular race (also sort of a red state) simply because of Sanders' involvement. Now, I don't give a rat's ass about who's mayor of some stupid city in the Midwest. Just pointing out that *some* of the discussion around this is entirely hypocritical.
yardwork
(69,364 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Where?
alarimer
(17,146 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)When you say "all the time" and "constantly" that indicates that you have some specific examples you can share.
Manchin? Can you name some Democratic candidates that "don't stick to the platform" that we are "constantly" told to support?
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)During the last election Sen. Sanders was against candidates like Mello....we needed true blue progressive candidates (don't believe they can win everywhere but hey I want progressives too). Now he is all for populist candidates that favor public/ private legislation IE selling our roads and bridge like Mello...who threw women under the bus repeatedly with his votes on abortion rights.
Now I have no objection to Mello running in a red area like Nebraska or anywhere he chooses actually. We are the big tent party after all. However, he should not be endorsed by Progressive leaders. Now why was a mayors race such a big deal...you probably know why...Jane Kleeb is the chair of the Nebraska Democratic Party. She worked for Bernie in some capacity. I have no objection for anyone doing a favor for a friend...hey, why not? And this is a red state. We won't do better than Mello. But he can not now or ever be the future of the Democratic Party unless you crave Republican lite.
This is not a referendum on Sen. Sanders...the primary is over and the election is over...yet some who don't agree with him or his choice of candidates to support are portrayed as being against Sen. Sanders...not true...it has nothing to do with the Senator. Time to let it go...not everyone will adore Sen. Sanders and/or agree with every choice he makes, and that is fine. We need to move on and stop Trump...that is our most important challenge. So let's not sow the seeds of division by endorsing candidates who may be controversial...keep the eye on the ball...end Trump's reign of terror. I don't give a damn about Sen. Sanders;he is not a Democrat but votes with us;so it is a symbiotic relationship, and we need all hands on deck. He is not the issue. Trump is.
trc
(830 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And continues to do so.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Cha
(319,089 posts)endorsed Mello, it was the way he propped up the "aggressively anti-choice" candidate as "the progressive" and saying he didn't know the Pro-Choice candidate, Jon Ossoff, in Georgia, on Election Day
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)but he should not be endorsed...I wonder if all this attention made him more likely to lose.
Cha
(319,089 posts)motivated.
But, Obama won Omaha twice ironically enough.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)and statewide races to be won first by Pres. Obama and isn't Heidi Heitkamp from there? Look at Georgia...when I live there at first the GOP was taking every presidential race but there were Democrats in the House and Senate...and in the legislature ,Zell Miller was governor and Roy Barnes after him...but eventually...it all went red...it looks to be moving the other way now...and maybe Nebraska is too.
Cha
(319,089 posts)Here's to a genuine Blue Wave across the country by 2018 and sooner.. We desperately need it.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)a lack of endorsement as hurting a particular Democratic candidates like Ossoff...I care only about the Democratic Party and winning the coming elections...I would always vote Dem in any election...but promoting anti-choice candidates is not a good idea period. And after being told about how important it is for candidates to be 'progressive' ( I think all Democrats are progressive) now a pro-life anti-environmental guy is endorsed...you don't see why some might consider this hypocritical? I fail to understand why there is so much angst over one guy...I just don't get why people care so much. I really liked Obama and Howard Dean before him...my two favorite candidates...one won and one lost. I admired them but I was never a political groupie (not saying you are a political groupie;speaking in general terms). I just don't get it.
yardwork
(69,364 posts)After complaining for years that Democrats aren't progressive enough, the supposedly progressive wing of the party champions a candidate with right wing beliefs? That makes no sense.
boston bean
(36,931 posts)They want to win conservative voters... by appealing to conservative voters... ok....
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Cha
(319,089 posts)fishy.
yardwork
(69,364 posts)Cha
(319,089 posts)Mello. ".. 3rd way..".. look who's talking. damn
JHan
(10,173 posts)and the reason we always lose, and the reason clinton and obama were so awful... (Am I doing it right?)
Cha
(319,089 posts)Establishment" vapid insults to the pile.
You can never go wrong with throwing the word "Establishment" around ad nauseam.
Which of course is pure ******* 'cause John Lewis and Planned Parenthood were deemed "establisnment" and they're the kind of people and orgs who are the real leaders.
Throw in some dismissive "identity politics" references.
Cha
(319,089 posts)surreal one.
BumRushDaShow
(169,783 posts)Cha
(319,089 posts)all.. "authoritarian".
BRDS
JHan
(10,173 posts)thirdway - identity politics- politricking somethingsomethingsomething
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)thirdway-identitypolitricking-corporatist neoliberal shilling-somethingsomethingsomethingblahblahblah.
yardwork
(69,364 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Third way Democrats!!!
It was a disaster to go there during the unity tour which did not help with unity.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)then the Party will not have a future.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Warpy
(114,616 posts)voters are generally going to choose the real thing. That's been known for years.
He was a lousy candidate. Time to move on.
Gothmog
(179,871 posts)riversedge
(80,815 posts)perhaps the lesson was learned by voters???
In thanking supporters, Mello hinted he was hardly finished by Tuesday's defeat.
"Our work does not stop tonight," he said. "It only begins."
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Why should I care unless it is for the Senate or the House...and if he can't win a mayoral race with Jane Kleeb as the chair of the Democratic Party in Nebraska backing him and the star power of Sen. Sanders...I am not sure he can ever win.
imanamerican63
(16,183 posts)But Mello was a conservative mined person. He says one thing and then jumps to the other side when it suitable for him. His political values are wasted on pleasing those around him and not the ones who voted for him, i.e. Trump! I am from Omaha and he never came across well to me. He lost by 7% to a mayor that is not liked by anyone. If we wanted to win the local elections we need to have a candidate who is willing and able to put up a fight to the end.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)imanamerican63
(16,183 posts)Our last Democrat mayor sold us down the river in Omaha when they built the a baseball stadium for the College Word Series. We will be paying many years to come!
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Democrats are shoved in like sardines...so I don't deal with them locally.
Cha
(319,089 posts)Jake Stern
(3,146 posts)I call bullshit on using Mello's stance on abortion as a reason to reject him considering the breathless imploring by Dems to support unabashedly anti-choice John Bel Edwards.
You know: the same John Bel Edwards who has already signed a bills chock full of anti-choice goodies such one raising the waiting period from 24 hours to 72 hours. Another bill that outlaws D&E abortions, considered the safest method of performing a second trimester abortion and yet another one that forces abortion providers to jump through even more hoops.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Perhaps you could point who was breathlessly imploring Dems to do so? Of course I don't live in Louisiana, and didn't hear about any endorsement of him from anyone in the DNC - which may be why I wasn't paying attention to that race...
Bernie chose to endorse a small city mayoral race candidate and refused to endorse a more nationally important candidate in a congressional race, and refused to call him progressive. And the resulting rift over that line in the sand was not unexpected, I'm sure.
So yes, there's that.
Edited to add: I looked at his voting record on Choice, and it compares with Mello. I guess that won't rule him out as someone that Bernie could endorse. Has he?
And yes, if I lived in Louisiana and had the choice of voting for a Democrat who was anti-choice, and a Republican, I would choose the Democrat, but I would sure as hell not expect the outreach director of the Democratic party to waste time on endorsing him.
Edited to add:
Here are some posts on John Bel Edwards from DU than are less than fawning, so I'm not sure who the breathless implorers are that you speak of:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028812931
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10027828472
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10027289449
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10027286867
Cha
(319,089 posts)it's the way he propped up the "aggressively anti-choice" Mello as a "progressive".. and acted like he didn't know who the "Pro-choice" candidate, Jon Ossoff, was in Georgia on Election Day.
romanic
(2,841 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)But not only did that gamble not pay off, some political observers say it might have blunted Mellos momentum against Mayor Jean Stothert.
Paul Landow, a political scientist and a former Democratic mayoral staffer, called it a colossal mistake to bring in Sanders.
Why do you bring an ultraliberal into a moderate city to campaign for a moderate candidate for mayor? Landow said. Bernie Sanders is not going to do anything to expand your base.
The mayors race is officially nonpartisan. But the election became more partisan when the former Democratic presidential candidate appeared with Mello.
His visit came on the heels of a primary election that was a surprise even to Mellos campaign, with him finishing only 3 percentage points behind the mayor. On Tuesday, Stothert won by close to 7 points.
The Sanders event brought some national attention to the race, but not all of it was positive. Sanders was criticized by some national Democrats for endorsing Mello, who opposes abortion.
The following week, Stothert brought Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, a Republican who receives praise from conservatives and criticism from unions. Walker said he wanted to inject some Midwest values back into the race.
Stothert and her staffers said her campaign started getting more positive responses after Sanders appearance.
http://www.omaha.com/news/politics/city-election/bernie-sanders-campaigning-for-heath-mello-was-a-colossal-mistake/article_28603bdc-3591-11e7-93b9-137182190462.html
Cha
(319,089 posts)Mahalo, ehrnst
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... may "feel good" and may seem satisfying at the moment, but as is most often the case, it comes back to bite our asses if we're not careful. There's a sense of desperation and panic (??) that seems to be affecting people's ability to think clearly... or their ability to look further into the future and to anticipate possible outcomes.
There are a lot of mistakes being made. Errors in judgement and errors in expectations. I really like Perez, but I think he needs to reassess. I really like Schumer, but he needs to rethink things as well. If they're ACTUALLY in control, then they need to act like it and take firm hold of the reigns... and to GUIDE this party.
As a party, we cannot afford to continue to make vanity-based and ego-based mistakes. It's a waste of time and resources. There's NOT a good return on the investment, and losses like this help to illustrate the things that concern me the most. It's a mistake to just sit back and "hope for the best" and to hope that everyone has our party's best interests in mind.
We need people with a VISION and a PLAN... not people with a chips on their shoulders, filled with resentment and scores to settle. Still, I remain hopeful that things will turn around, and our DEMOCRATIC PARTY will find a way to grow stronger by listening to our OWN voices and our OWN conscience.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Take running more than once, getting and then keeping your name out there. Don't give up.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)and probably should not have asked for Sen. Sander's help...I had not considered that...I was just irritated at the endorsement of someone who voted for abortion limits, pipelines...etc. I wish Mello had won...he is better than any GOP despite his somewhat disappointing views...in a red state, you won't do better.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)There are a lot of liberals in Omaha and Lincoln, colleges, state employees, medical, Warren Buffet territory, and they have there own electoral votes...which Obama took.