I promise this post is not intended to piss people off, BUT...just suppose for a second

[DFW]

That the November election had gone as predicted.

There would be President Hillary in the White House with a competent, if not entirely firebrand cabinet, Garland instead of Gorsuch (of whom we would never have even heard) on the Supreme Court, and the Senate with a razor-thin Democratic majority. A weakened--both in numbers and credibility--Paul Ryan remaining (for now) as Speaker of the House with the radicals and Big Money leaning on him like Al Capone to be a worse obstructionist than Bonehead and McTurtle combined ever were. Ryan would be pushing back to keep the title of "Worst Speaker of Modern Times" squarely in Bonehead's portfolio.

Would we be celebrating the continuation of a Democrat in the White House with a new (sort-of) Democratic majority on the Supreme Court, and the likelihood of one remaining for the next two decades?

Or would we be tearing apart every detail of every initiative of our first Madame President because not every little tiny detail fit into our individual imaginary ideal Christmas stocking? Like so many of us did with Obama--or so it seemed--would we already be piling on her for not having cured cancer, eliminated poverty and disease, not having rid the oceans of pollution, and not having brought about world peace within the first 72 hours of her presidency? Would many of us be yelling for her "corporatist, oligarch" head for not fulfilling our wish list before she had completed her first two weeks in office?

Would we be screaming in rage that as president, she did not exceed her constitutionally limited powers--limits for which we are now immensely grateful, limits that (sorta) restrain Trump from being far worse than he has been so far?

I suspect that all that negative stuff listed above would have been our all-consuming pastime, excluding only the few whose "Rome was not built in a day" pleas, which would have been drowned out by the smug "I tolja so, she never should have been our nominee" crowd--even as the leaders of the world, both friend and foe, breathe a global sigh of relief that America has not gone completely off its collective rocker after all.

Because I'll tell you one thing, my friends: looking at America with my "rest of the world" friends here on the other side of "the pond," America DOES TOO appear to have gone off its collective rocker, and if we don't want to see a European Defense Force and a European Monetary Fund, and a visa requirement for U.S. Citizens like we have for almost everyone else, and a lot of unpleasant "etc.," we have a LOT of work cut out for us. The first step might be to cut out this coulda-shoulda stuff of last year (foreign espionage election meddling excluded, because we need to give that one a lethal injection). Sure, it was Bernie's fault. Sure it was Hillary's fault. Sure it was Putin's fault. Sure, it was the Media's fault. Sure it was Comey's fault. I might as well toss in the San Andreas Fault for good measure. Enough blame tossed around for everyone's liking? Good. To use the quote from "Yuri Rozanov" in "The Russians Are Coming, The Russians Are Coming,"..."don't do it no more." If by now you don't have bigger fish to fry, please remove yourself from the kitchen.

[livetohike]

1. K&R

[mopinko]

2. no doubt it would be a hatefest.

and the trolls would be having an even bigger hayday that they did in '09.

[DFW]

6. Probably so, but with some considerable blowback this time

Not everyone would have had such lofty expectations, I think, which would have made for some more sober assessments of her progress.

But maybe I'm dreaming again.

[tavalon]

34. I didn't actually get pissed off until Obama appointed Rahm Emmanuel as COS

And really, I was so shocked, anger wasn't my first emotion. I actually felt betrayed. I wouldn't have gotten as pissed at Sec. Clinton because I knew I was getting a Corporatist Dem. Somehow, I missed the memo with President Obama. Once I understood that he was a Corporatist, through and through, I could find things to respect him on. It was just so painful, that first betrayal, I kind of lost it.

But damn, I miss full sentences that actually made sense, even if I disagreed.

[onit2day]

59. Hillary did win the popular vote.The people's vote

Except for the Electoral college she would be president. We get instead a minority elected president unfit and unqualified amateur inexperienced buffoon unelected by the majority. Got it by cheating, got SC Judge by cheating. only way they win anything is by cheating. It's hard to endure.

[blueseas]

61. Welcome and yes she sure did that

[jaysunb]

3. +1 kr n/t

[samnsara]

4. i would have cherished and believed in her..just like i did with PBO...100%

[DFW]

7. One thing is for sure--that's a chance I would have loved to have giver her. n/t

[Demonaut]

33. I did not love Hillary but I hoped I would after she took office

I liked her strength, her tenacity and her intelligence

[madokie]

5. The Hillary haters would already be tossed to the side

the admins wouldn't put up with any shit scattered towards her you can bet on that.

This place would be a love fest.

Peace




IMHO

[DFW]

8. Haters would have been given rough treatment, I agree

But unanimous love and adoration? I haven't seen THAT here for anyone, and I doubt Hillary would have been the first.

[Ligyron]

9. This should be gotten to the greatest page.

If only I had the power.

[DFW]

10. I appreciate the vote of confidence.

I think you helped it on its way

[Hoosier]

11. Richard Engel - election night

Saw this live. I felt (and still feel) the way he does.

[DFW]

12. Agreed--he nailed it from ground zero, and hasn't been in the slightest wrong. n/t

[ProfessorPlum]

30. wow, I hadn't seen this before

he really spoke a lot of truth, and it was embarrassing to watch the rest of them sitting around, mouths closed, ashamed and afraid because someone was actually telling the truth on TV.

[susanna]

47. I hadn't seen it either.

Damn, that guy knows what is up (and was from the beginning of this nightmare).

Wow.

[riderinthestorm]

35. This Irish citizen agrees nt

[Mr. Ected]

13. I also think a lot of the dialogue would be driven by the Republicans in the House

Who by now would have already introduced 35 more bills to repeal Obamacare and another 23 articles of impeachment against our Madam President.

The folks here on DU may have unified against the perils of the evil GOP, while simultaneously slow-roasting in our own juices with our own identity crisis simmering under the surface.

[DFW]

16. He was not part of my discussion, as he was not the Democratic Party's nominee

My speculation was how we would have reacted to what we could have REALISTICIALLY expected Hillary (not Bernie) to do in her first few weeks and months in office. Would we, i.e. DU, have given her, our candidate a chance and the benefit of the doubt, or would we have been sharpening our knives during the inaugural ball as much as the Republicans in those same hours?

[mcar]

15. Every cabinet pick would have been derided

Congress would have 24/7 emails, Benghazi investigations.

The Supreme court would be safe and we wouldn't be running up to war. I'd take it in a heartbeat.

[DFW]

18. Probably so, although I think Benghazi was a dead horse

They had moved on to emails by now, probably expected Comey to help them out.

As for the Court and the national security--I'm with you. I'd take it in a heartbeat.

[murielm99]

60. It is not a dead horse.

I went to a town hall for my tea party congressman. Two red-hatted shits sat to my right. They bellyached about Benghazi.

[DFW]

65. Still?

These must be guys that shout "remember the Maine!" in their sleep!

That is, they would if they knew the first thing about American history (they probably think the Rough Riders took part in Custer's Last Stand).

[Hekate]

17. KnR, DFW

[DFW]

19. It's 1 AM here, and I have to be off down to Hessen in a few hours

So, thanks, and good night!

[Perseus]

20. Bull...

Obama had a lot of support. What angered democrats, her in DU and other places was Obama's "moving forward" and not trying to find out the facts about 911 and the Iraq invasion. There was also some anger at the fact that Obama wasted his 1st two years where he had a majority, and it was wasted trying to get the republicans to join in policy making for the good of the country.

After that I think it took people some time to realize that the fault laid more on the "opponents" who at every turn tried to derail everything Obama and the democrats tried to do, and then the anger turned back to where it should have been from the getgo.

What reasons Obama had for his "moving forward" crap I don't know, and will never know because I don't hold a place in government so those details do not come to us, I have my theories which I keep to myself, but I am sure there was a huge reason.

I am more concerned at the amount of time and energy dedicated to laughing and pointing out the incompetence of trump because it derails the attention to the real problem, which is the republican party, Ryan, McConell, etc. People need to understand that Trump, Spicer are just decoys, they are there because they bring good "ratings" and keep people away from the real problems. So people, start focusing on where the real problem lies, the republican party and the Trump kids, Kushner included.

One last thing, after the scare of the possibility of Trump having become president, which of course he did, democrats would have been very happy with Hillary, the bashing would have been left for the republicans to do, and they do it no matter what democrat takes the presidency...

Sorry to say it, but I think the initial blog is bull, people seem to be wasting time where its not needed...how about using that energy, and blof time, to push the FBI to start the subpoenas? instead of wasting time with this kind of blog that is just based on fantasy because Hillary did not win, so this is all supposition.

[stevenleser]

31. You pretty much just proved the OP's point with your 1st three paragraphs. nt

[Fresh_Start]

21. I would have been better without Trump in the White House

even given every other problem you pointed out.

Part of the anger I feel every day is because Trump is making such outrageous moves.....and I'm still very angry at the idiots who refused to vote or who refused to vote for Clinton because they didn't get what they wanted.

Without both of those splinters under my skin, I could brush off most of the crap that normally goes on.

[mdbl]

24. I don't know anyone that didn't vote for Hillary

except the dodo twump supporters who don't seem to know their ass from a rush limbaugh radio show.

[DFW]

36. I do, I'm sad to say.

I know a guy in DC named Garland Nixon (his real name) who does some small media gigs. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't read his stuff with my own eyes.

[YoungDemCA]

22. Hillary Clinton's political career is over, and deservedly so.

This is not an endorsement of Trump, by the way, for those who are capable of any thought beyond absolutist partisan tunnel vision.

[VOX]

27. She can be of great help in a senior advisory capacity...

Of some kind. Regardless of how you feel (and I do get it), that woman has endured untold buckets of shit from generations of right-wingers' assaults, insults, smears, outrageous lies, grillings, etc. "Hating Hillary" is a cottage industry--hell, it's big business -- with the right. Even if she's not your cup of tea, her courage and fortitude cannot be dismissed. Her institutional memory alone is of inestimable value.

But, it's been done, and I'm in agreement, it's time to go with with another approach.

[riderinthestorm]

39. +1

I am not a Hillary hater. Never have been. Just not a Hillary lover.

Time to move on.

Thanks for this.

[Egnever]

48. The thing I admire most in her

Her willingness to keep putting one foot in front of the other. I disagree with her on a lot but I know she would have taken the job seriously and I know she would have had the fortitude to see the job through. She does not give up.

[DorothyG]

23. I'm not familiar with European politics. What is the hazard of a European Defense Force or a

European Monetary Fund?

[DFW]

38. The hazard is not to them, but to us

If the EU, with all its disunity, thinks that the USA has become such an undependable partner that we cannot be counted upon to lead and protect as we have since the end of World War II, the long term effect on our foreign policy and our economy has the potential to be very damaging.

[pecosbob]

25. Stop voting for centrist neoliberals if you want to change things

Democrats are not supposed to be the 'other white meat'. Predator corporations are not your friend and neither are their enablers. Don't vote for people that think it's okay to kill people on the other side of the planet with armed drones (this is directed at both Dem candidates from the last election).

[DFW]

40. I'll vote for whoever our nominee is

It seems rather obvious that the Republicans are not going to nominate anyone who will be more beneficial to our country, or any other country, for that matter. The primaries are one thing, but once they're done, I'm not willing to be a proud lemming.

[Egnever]

49. Well said

[PoliticAverse]

26. People would be complaining how Schumer won't remove the non-talking filibuster...

and how Paul Ryan is the Prince of No.

(And I don't think that Clinton would have picked Garland)

[DFW]

43. You're right. Clinton would not have picked Garland

She would have picked someone more like Kagan or Sotomayor, which is why I believe McTurtle would have suddenly found an excuse to confirm Garland before she could be inaugurated, had she won the election.

[MrPurple]

28. If Hillary had become President, the screeching attacks from the right would be so intense...

that we would be defending her out of a reflex to the insanity. I'm a Democrat and voted for Obama and Hillary (and every nominee since Dukakis), but you kind of seem to be saying that once Hitler became Chancellor in 1933, it meant that anyone who criticized the flaws in the previous Weimar Republic government were wasting their effort because they didn't know how much worse they could have it.

I'm new to DU since the election, but I find the constant drama between HRC & BrSd (not using their names because I see so many people say that they're filtering out posts with references to them) supporters absurd. It's perfectly fine to criticize what you see as flaws in your party. You should fight for your vision of how things should be. The discussions about the merits of the different wings of the Democratic party are healthy, so long as you support the nominee when the time comes. I like reading and thinking about those debates; tradeoffs between purity and electability are a worhty topic. What's hard to read are the backbiting replies castigating people for supporting supporting BrSd's critiques, or for feeling that Hillary was a better option.

I don't see why people with differing opinions on that can't have intelligent discussions about it, while ALSO fighting against the bloated disgrace in the White House. I supported Obama, but also, when I was unhappy with policies of his, I said so. For me, when the Republicans took Congress in 2010, I was pissed that he didn't play hardball and let the Bush tax cuts expire and put the Republicans in the position of having everyone's taxes go up because they weren't willing to settle for an option where taxes would only go up on people making over 250K instead.

Yeah, you should back your party when the time comes (and the vast majority do), but if you discourage debate on what the soul of a party should be, then it will have no soul.

[DFW]

41. I'm not against debate, just suicide. n/t

[riderinthestorm]

45. Welcome to DU!

Most of us also like Obama.

Your post is spot on - debate is the lifeblood of democracy.

Thanks.

[First Speaker]

29. One caveat--Garland wouldn't be on the Court...

...I doubt that the Dems could have won the Senate even if Hillary squeaked out an election win. So, the GOP would probably still be dragging their feet on the Court.

[JI7]

37. no, if Hillary won in november the republicans would have put Garland to a vote before she got into

office to avoid someone more liberal .

so it would be garland on on the sc.

[DFW]

42. I'm not so sure about that

McTurtle's mantra was that "the next president should make the court pick." If "the next president" had been Hillary and he then reneged, he would have been mercilessly roasted in the media, something Republicans don't react well to when it's their media doing the roasting.

[First Speaker]

44. I'm not sure they would have cared...

...they were already making noises before the election about blocking any of her Court picks for her whole term. Their "base" would have had a shit fit if anyone to the left of Heinrich Himmler had replaced Scalia. They don't care about their media perception, ultimately; they care about power at all costs. We'll never know now anyway... ...

[DFW]

46. Like you said...

We'll never know. But they don't care one whit about what their base thinks unless they're needed. Once the election is over, they do what they want because they know the fanatics will vote for them no matter what, and that their financiers will be with them no matter what. I think they care about media perception if it's THEIR media. What Rachel Maddow and Lawrence O'Donnell say won't bother them. When there's blowback from Fox and Frauds, they listen.

[thesquanderer]

62. I think he would not have cared about being roasted.

Nor about being consistent, about a "mantra" or anything else.

It would just be a matter of his deciding what was he thought was better for the Republican party. (Not the country, the party.)

And if that meant confirming Garland, he'd come up with a story to justify it, and Fox et al would have given him a pass.

[progressoid]

32. I blame Internet Explorer

and Nickleback.

[niyad]

50. we know the sheer, unbridled ugliness of what would have come from the reichwingnutjobs.

and, sadly, everything you said would have occurred. and we know from whom.

[Orsino]

51. We would probably be finding fault with some of her Wall Street picks...

...but we would be doing that from a position of privilege--that of having a competent, sane president on her way to some more progressive accompilshments,

[MFM008]

52. cant think of a sane

thoughtful person as president, its to painful and depressing.
Damn everyone who voted for this bloated maggot.

[DFW]

67. Every last one of them!

And his supporters who thought they were being "forgotten?" They will now REALLY learn the meaning of "forgotten."

And "used," while they're at it. And then they'll forget completely by the time the next election rolls around, and vote Republican AGAIN.

[SpankMe]

53. Great post, and all true.

Perfect is the enemy of good-enough.

[DFW]

56. That's our dilemma, it seems

Nothing short of perfect is "good enough" for some people, and like the car that gets 500 miles on a gallon of water, we're never going to have it.

[kcr]

54. I have no doubt that a lot of what you say would have played out that way

But there would be one major difference. It would be Hillary and not Trump actually in office.

[DFW]

55. VERY major!! n/t

[annabanana]

57. Just caught up with this thread..

Enlightening. (And no sniping!)

[DFW]

58. Well, a few stray bullets

But nothing that couldn't be avoided with a minimum of attention.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

63. A big, fat K&R!

Not that you need it...

[DFW]

64. My dear Peggy

One can still appreciate that which may not necessarily have been needed

[CaliforniaPeggy]

66. That's for sure!

And........you made me laugh with your appreciation.