ugh.. my wife got in a debate with a right winger online

[retrowire]

he was an old friend of hers and on Facebook he made some commentary to her mom about how socialism is evil and all that.

my wife simply and kindly explained to him that he needed to do some research on the true meaning of it and all that.

and so on and so on...

I warned her why I never get in debates with those on the right online. for every fact we have, they have some sort of conjured up counterpoint and they have sources too. their sources are obviously lies but it boils down to this. I told her to know when you've hit a wall with someone and here was the wall.

when he started saying things like, don't ask for more from the system, that's why our economy is in the shitter, when he said things like, "I want to be an astronaut but thats tough because I can't afford college."

"We all need to work harder and if you want more money, work two jobs if you have to. its the only way to fix our economy because of the leeches in society sucking all the money away." because the 34.5 percent of our nation on welfare is totally responsible for how many trillions of debt? I think tanks and fighter jets are a lot more expensive than some shelter and a meal don't you think?

do these people not think for themselves?

he said something about illegal immigrants being able to get college grants, is that true?

he went on to say that most people who are poor or are in financial trouble made bad decisions and that's what led them there. basically its their fault. because it totally makes sense that most people are stupid, rather than being victims of circumstances beyond their control.

and then it got better... I knew we hit the wall when I saw this, "That's not how God works."

I had to drink alcohol after that one folks... again, do they not think for themselves?! when it gets too hard to process do they just say its the will of God and therefore its higher than their understanding?

God is not a supreme being to these people, God is just a fucking tool, a weapon for them to use. To use God for your own means is to put God beneath you. And how hypocritical is that?

Its so fucking stupid I swear.

Thanks for hearing me vent.

[Hayduke Bomgarte]

1. do these people not think for themselves?

I'm guessing you know full well they do not, but they will, none the less argue, heatedly, that you/we are the non-thinking sheeple.

[world wide wally]

2. I was just wondering why God killed all those white people in the flood

[retrowire]

4. that came to my mind today too

but they guy in question prevent would've reasoned that's not god, their death is the result of their own dumb decisions.

sigh.

[Facility Inspector]

3. the bar is set way too low if

"discussion" with right wingers constitutes actual debate.

[Oneironaut]

5. They're already living with Socialism. Even most Conservatives support Socialism.

That is, unless if you want to privatize every road, the police, the fire department, 911, etc., and want absolutely no oversight or consequences for those private entities if they screw up, you *gasp* support Socialist policies.

[retrowire]

6. that's the thing,

my wife brought up those points and he disregarded them. paid those points no attention and went on to say that it is a socialist economy that destroyed Greece.

we gave him facts on that and again it was disregarded and ignored yet no longer brought up and that's why he ended the debate talking about welfare and our economy and how only working harder will fix it.

[Populist_Prole]

7. There's a few I know that are exactly like him; to a tee

It's rooted in a strong sense of Calvanism. In the literal religious sense which insinuates itself into a way of life.

Work work work, hard hard hard for "the man": it's the moral thing to do. The more you get shit on and work for less, the harder you work. Anybody they deem not to possess their own work ethic is scornfully demeaned. It's why the whole supply-side / "trickle down" system appeals to them so much.

When you engage them in actual discussion on just the merits/demerits of being working class in the functional plutocracy that is now this nation, they can't hang past the first or second counterpoint; their first usually being just canned boilerplate about the virtues of trickle down economics. Press them further with empirical evidence of its failure over the decades and they just jump headlong into their sandbag-lined foxholes where they take refuge in what they heard "God" say. They are, on that level of course, completely irrational.

[Lars39]

10. And usually at some point early in the conversation work is brought up.

They always have to proclaim how hard they work, and don't seem to recognize that anybody but themselves might work hard.

[retrowire]

12. good observation. n/t

[n2doc]

8. So I assume this person is extremely well to do?

If not, they are a lazy bum by their own admission. I would have probably just told them to "get a job!" at that punt in the discussion.

Of course "I want to be an astronaut" could be countered with "too bad NASA's funds got whacked so we could build more f-35 fighters that can't fly in a thunderstorm or dogfight! Too bad the few remaining US astronauts have to fly Putin to get to the space station we help build. But I guess The Republican controlled congress had better ideas these past 5 years!"

[retrowire]

11. he's got 2 jobs i think

he also said in the debate that if someone isn't getting paid what they want (this was his argument against 15$ minimum wage) then they should just get a better job.

and also he actually denied ageism existing (as in older folks being fired to hire younger, cheaper labor.)

he's really a class act. the kind of person who has no faith in others, everyone is a failure through their own doing and everyone's just lazy and they want hand outs.

the fact that he said, "its simple, just get a better job" on one hand and then said "if you can't afford college, then you don't get to go to college" on the other just shows such a disconnect with reality and logic it blows my mind.

you CANT just get a better job especially if you CANT afford the college education that's typically required to get that better job!

sigh...

[HughBeaumont]

9. Faith - it's when someone else is doing the thinking for you.

And for these people, it's all about the need to be BETTER than someone else.

Meritocracy is bullshit. The rich get richer and the poorer get the shitter.

[dembotoz]

13. Good for her!!! We gotta fight these bastards...silence is acceptance