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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow to handle the Democrat equals Communist Bull Shit:
Be it a reporter or a Republican opponent, here is what I would say;
"I'm a New Deal Democrat. I believe that capitalism is the best system, but there need to be rules in place to protect the people and the rich need to pay their fair share in taxes "
"Now let me ask you: Tell me exactly what is so radical about that?"
rampartd
(5,705 posts)but in the unlikely event that this gets past the night riders to a jury or an inquisitor.....
TBF
(37,747 posts)That is a sixth-grade description at best, and that was at my small rural school in the Midwest.
Roy Rolling
(7,758 posts)Here is the sentence analysis for measurements of grade level.
Flesch Kincaid Grade Level: 4.88
Gunning Fog Score: 8.31
Coleman-Liau Index: 7.25
SMOG Index of Text: 7.17
Automated Readability Index: 6.02
Linsear Write Formula: 20
FORCAST Readability Formula: 7.5
Average Grade Level Score: 8.73
Violent groups dont exist for diplomacy. They talk with their fists.
TBF
(37,747 posts)Srkdqltr
(10,202 posts)AllaN01Bear
(30,240 posts)Karasu
(2,419 posts)since the fucking '40s.
Srkdqltr
(10,202 posts)LakeVermilion
(1,691 posts)Capitalism, by itself, will eat everything in its path. Capitalism needs to have limits.
Consider this: Corporations won big after the "Big, Beautiful Bill." Did the corporations say thank you and fire their lobbyists? No, they are preparing to return to Washington and request more tax cuts. Capitalism's job is to generate a profit. So, they will act again to get more profit.
We are the only conscience that capitalism has.
On edit: Investors pay a lower tax rate than laborers. I'm becoming a believer in a flat income tax rate for everyone with no deductions.
MichMan
(17,706 posts)I doubt you will find much support for that here.
TBF
(37,747 posts)ie retirees who don't give a shit anymore, will actually go for. And they are not nearly as rich as they think they are.
Joinfortmill
(22,004 posts)harumph
(3,597 posts)They make sure of that. What they do have is capital gains and loans against their wealth. That's why talk about increasing taxes on income will not impact them. Corporations should pay more and there should be some tax on electronic trades at the very least. These solutions are out there - but discussions about them are suppressed by the media because the media owners don't want you to know the difference between income and capital gains for example. A hike in income taxes is just going to gore the lower and middle classes.
Moostache
(11,359 posts)The federal government has run up a debt so large and so unthinkable that the only ways to retire it are - 1) runaway inflation, 2) systemic collapse and 3) jubilee and wiping out the banking sector and starting over fresh.
In general, the powers that be see these in about that same order - the LAST thing they will EVER do is allow themselves to be impoverished for the behavior and unconscionable theft of wealth that has gone on since Reaganomics first rolled out in '81. The top 0.01% of the wealthiest should be liquidated of all but a subsistence level (to them) $100M holding. If they cannot figure out how to survive on that much, well, then I guess they perish.
There is nothing underpinning the current stock market that is not part and parcel of this time - it is all BS, propped up by lies and misdirection while a select few try to abscond with the goods to presumably go to their private islands and live out their days in semi-hiding but with palatial estates and comforts while the rest of us burn and die. FUCK THEM! Eat the rich sounds better by the minute...
harumph
(3,597 posts)"There is nothing underpinning the current stock market that is not part and parcel of this time - it is all BS, propped up by lies and misdirection while a select few try to abscond with the goods to presumably go to their private islands and live out their days in semi-hiding but with palatial estates and comforts while the rest of us burn and die."
Our modest 401ks are all caught up in the bullshit too. It has the perverse effect of making liars out of all of us - even though we know better. We are afraid to shout about the emperor's new clothes for fear of ruining it for all of us. Bigger fool theory and all of that. JFC! We're in a pickle. Sometimes I get a hankering to simply liquidate - take the tax hit - and purchase a remote property and raise goats and chickens. I'm not joking.
Spot fucking on.
MichMan
(17,706 posts)Total accumulated wealth consists of real estate, investments, businesses, art, jewelry, cars, aircraft, boats, collectibles, furniture and anything else that is property.
Just how do we determine the values of all those things, without a team of assessors physically looking at all of them and calculating current values? Honor system?
First off, they have to determine the values to know who is even eligible for the tax and after that, determine how much people would owe. It seems like they would have to assess everyone.
TBF
(37,747 posts)and a good way would be to re-read Marx on private vs. personal property.
MichMan
(17,706 posts)TBF
(37,747 posts)and the rest of the team that started in yesterday on this.
I am simply pointing out that the way you are defining "wealth" is your opinion, ideally it wouldn't look anything like that.
harumph
(3,597 posts)Even some middle of the road economists will concede that he correctly identified many of the vexing conditions associated with inequality. They do this while still being capitalist. Hence, it is widely understood in academia that Marx still has things to say.
Wikipedia on "Marxian" economics:
"Considered a heterodox school, the Marxian school has been criticized by claims relating to inconsistency, failed predictions, and scrutiny of nominally communist countries' economic planning in the 20th century. According to economists such as George Stigler and Robert Solow, Marxist economics are not relevant to modern economics, having "virtually no impact"[5] and only "represent[ing] a small minority of modern economists".[6] However, some ideas of the Marxian school have contributed to mainstream understanding of the global economy. Certain concepts developed in Marxian economics, especially those related to capital accumulation and the business cycle, have been fitted for use in capitalist systems; one such example is Joseph Schumpeter's notion of creative destruction." (emphasis mine)
Now of course, you're right inasmuch as even the mere mention of Marx will get you tarred and feathered by the right wing.
That doesn't mean intelligent people should restrict their reading and information gathering to only resources deemed "acceptable" by the pearl clutching right.
KPN
(17,622 posts)Those are reported to the holder every year at a minimum. The vast majority of wealth exists in the form of financial investments that provide an annual return or loss. Unliquidated gains could also be taxed on a progressive rate schedule. And as many have suggested, tax every financial transaction at a minimum. Those actions alone would capture a significant portion of wealth not a majority by far but nonetheless substantive. Decrease the amount exempted from inheritance. There are many ways to collect a fairer share if not outright fair.
TBF
(37,747 posts)Skittles
(173,785 posts)I would presume that to mean addressing ALL their wealth
Bettie
(20,052 posts)and the wealthy find ways to classify their money as "not wages" to avoid taxes entirely.
Kaleva
(40,507 posts)Its an archaic term. I dont think theres that many young people or even middle aged folks who really know what a communist is.
MichMan
(17,706 posts)Yet that word is used quite regularly
Kaleva
(40,507 posts)gab13by13
(33,131 posts)If someone asks you, have you stopped beating your wife yet, do you go into a lengthy explanation about how and why you don't beat your wife, or do you do what I do, call them an idiot?
Chasstev365
(8,445 posts)This is why we lose.
Card Carrying Liberal 1988
Slick Willy 1992-1996
Lock Box, He says he invented the internet 2000
Swiftboated 2004
Pal's Around With Terrorists 2008
Her Emails 2016
Sleepy Joe 2024
Not all of these worked, but most did. Democrats should NOT be afraid to say, YES; I'M A NEW DEAL DEMOCRAT!
gab13by13
(33,131 posts)I responded what I did when the editor of my newspaper publicly called me his pinko commie buddy. I went to his office, told him not to renew my subscription and told him I thought he was an educated person and not an idiot.
If you are debating with a Magat about whether or not you are a communist you are losing, he/she is winning.
It's like if I asked you if you have stopped beating your wife yet. Do you think that stupid question deserves an answer?
meadowlander
(5,199 posts)lastlib
(28,908 posts)because clearly the accuser doesn't know shit about what communism is.
Ocelot II
(131,955 posts)things like schools, roads, law enforcement, national defense, etc. Since no individual can afford to buy those things on their own, we pool our resources so we can all have them. If you call it pooled resources or something like that, you never have to breathe the scary word "socialism" or argue about what it means.
MichMan
(17,706 posts)Ocelot II
(131,955 posts)because it isn't socialism. Socialism is an economic system in which the government owns and controls the means of production and distribution, and we don't have that. What we have is a capitalist system in which some functions are managed by the government using money paid into it by taxpayers. Even so, the government does not own or control many of those functions; it pays private businesses to build roads, for example, because it is less efficient and cost effective for a government to own and assume the costs of all the aspects of road construction than it is to hire private contractors to do it. Health care, even that which is currently subsidized by the government (e.g., Medicare), is not a system in which the government owns hospitals or clinics or employs doctors; it just pays some of the costs of treatment by private providers. In a truly socialist system the government would own and manage the medical providers. Universal health care, as we understand it, is Medicare for everybody, but not supplied by government-owned clinics.
The word "socialism" gets some people's panties in a bunch because it carries the implication that the government would own and control everything. We don't have or want that. What we do want is a stronger social safety net.
cbabe
(7,050 posts)meaningless. Interrupting the game works.)
Classic. Massie asks fox reporter if he watches gay porn:
Thomas Massie Humiliates Fox Reporter Over Gay Porn!
https://m.
niyad
(135,641 posts)QueerDuck
(2,306 posts)In the far corners of the internet, and elsewhere online and youtube, I've seen many things that sound and read like:
...followed by...
... and finally...
Blue Full Moon
(3,829 posts)creeksneakers2
(8,128 posts)And they won those over anger at Israel, not because anybody supports socialism.
SamuelAdams
(433 posts)It's hard to fight against a term when some of your candidates embrace it. It would be better if we could convince our side not to use controversial labels and advocate radical policies. If we could call ourselves Democrats and run on liberal policies, that would be great.
Wiz Imp
(10,955 posts)there is a significant difference
Bernie Sanders calls himself a Democratic Socialist and he is one of the most popular politicians in the country. The label has not hurt him. In fact a fair number of Republicans/Trump voters have positive views of Sanders.
TBF
(37,747 posts)I mean seriously. Republicans have been doing this for ages, and the McCarthyism on display this weekend is Trump pulling out very old cards since everything else has gone to shit for him.
They are going to take any term anyone uses and put a negative spin on it, it's what they do, and then the press they own will repeat the talking points.
Escape
(565 posts)That's all we need to know.
SocialDemocrat61
(8,452 posts)It won't resonate well with African and Asian Americans.
Joinfortmill
(22,004 posts)SocialDemocrat61
(8,452 posts)That will resonate with non-white people. Maybe we should consider language that all people will connect with.
Joinfortmill
(22,004 posts)SocialDemocrat61
(8,452 posts)that the Democratic Party is a multiracial party and just not only speak to white people.
Joinfortmill
(22,004 posts)known as the 'Nordic Model'. It can be applied anywhere. Jeez.
SocialDemocrat61
(8,452 posts)is not going to resonate with most people, especially non-white people.
Joinfortmill
(22,004 posts)for something similar. I'm done with this discussion.
SocialDemocrat61
(8,452 posts)that will speak to all Americans?
Torchlight
(7,333 posts)SocialDemocrat61
(8,452 posts)Just recognizing reality.
Torchlight
(7,333 posts)SocialDemocrat61
(8,452 posts)but based on reality.
BannonsLiver
(21,085 posts)Ol Janx Spirit
(1,143 posts)....trillionaires gobbling up all the wealth in the world and relegating them to doing the sewer work that AI can't be bothered to do than to be afraid of affordable housing and healthcare, but here we are....
We think that if there are going to be billionaires and trillionaires they should be doing good things for you and your family--not stealing your wealth, paying no taxes, and destroying your children's' futures. Call it whatever the hell you want--we don't care.
Billionaires and trillionaires steal your family's basic dignity and right to affordable healthcare, housing, retirement, and living wages to fund their lavish lifestyles and insatiable appetites for everything you will allow them to take from you. They do not care. We do.
The alternative is handing your and your family's future to a group of people that will take everything from you and demand more. And one day you can try to explain to your grandchildren how the two words Democratic Socialism were so scary that you just couldn't possibly even try to keep the billionaires and trillionaires from vacuuming up every piece and every card and every bill on the Monopoly board and leave them with nothing.
Dave Id
(382 posts)try having a reasonable conversation about an opposing position with a biased idiot is a waste of time. My brother is one of them.
spooky3
(39,046 posts)are no facts you can present that will make a dent.
MoseShrute
(184 posts)After they flounder with the definition of communism, point out the characteristics of fascism and ask the magat if it sounds familiar to the current administration.
Torchlight
(7,333 posts)I simply point them to those meritless price increases and mention, "whatever *this* is, it ain't workin' out too well. For anyone. "
The Commie assertions are just this month's meritless words from meritless minds and hold neither concern nor consequence in contrast to the substantive issues we walk into the mid-terms with.
Farmer-Rick
(12,884 posts)I would never tell a MAGAT that I believed in capitalism. I believe that form of economics exists but it is a destructive form of economics that consolidates wealth, in the already rich. Capitalism forces most people to live with poverty level resources.
It's just as destructive as feudalism and slavery. In fact, capitalism works quite well with feudalism and slavery.
Like we evolved past feudalism, we need to evolve past capitalism. It's a destructive force for evil. It's what really caused WWII.
But I would never talk to a MAGAT about economics, it's a waste of effort. They are too stupid to have coherent thoughts. It's all about feelings for them...mostly hate....not about facts.
Alpeduez21
(2,090 posts)harumph
(3,597 posts)BUT, in such cases, it's properly regulated capitalism. One could argue what you're seeing in the US is a degraded capitalism - though we call it simply "capitalism." Maybe it's crony capitalism, anarcho-capitalism or some other kind, but it's neither free nor transparent. I do believe in the profit motive but also believe that when making said profit, there needs to be a tangible public interest/benefit. It is disheartening that people throw around and wrongly conflate terms that have an actual meaning in economics. The Nordic countries are capitalist countries, but their form of it is very different from ours. Proper regulation retains the profit motive but channels it into productive activity. Most Americans have no idea about well regulated capitalism. Philosophically, I'm more of a fixer than "Let's trash the system and start entirely over." type of person. The reason for this is that when we (trash) a system, chaos ensues and then meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Alpeduez21
(2,090 posts)Id start with that
bucolic_frolic
(56,450 posts)Tax breaks, write-offs, subsidies. Billionaires know how to feed at the public trough.
spooky3
(39,046 posts)production). No way would I want this President, or any other, to run business.
William Seger
(12,584 posts)"Are you dumber than a 5th grader?"
Joinfortmill
(22,004 posts)Blue Full Moon
(3,829 posts)Donald is now a least popular name.
Despite what the billionaire owned media says he is despised.
Any democrat you can add 20 points to their poll numbers.
And a very liberal candidate almost took TN election that area is gerrymandered to the nth degree.
They have been saying this crap for decades. His dementia must be putting him in The All in the Family era.
Boo1
(677 posts)And trying to explain the difference.
ProfessorGAC
(77,752 posts)"The accusations about communists are stupid lies."
reACTIONary
(7,456 posts).... is much better than denying a smear.
ProfessorGAC
(77,752 posts)It's an accusation the liar has to react to.
reACTIONary
(7,456 posts)....I'm a New Deal Democrat. Now let me ask you: Tell me exactly what is so radical about that?
ProfessorGAC
(77,752 posts)But, I'm concerned about how the most of the electorate reacts to a restrained answer in today's politics.
Your idea would work on me, but I'm thinking the masses need to see a more aggressive & confrontational approach.
If that's not what they want to see, Hillary would have been our 45th president.
I very much like your reply, I am not sure convinced however, that it punches hard enough for people, unlike you & me, are not attuned to political philosophies.
David__77
(24,929 posts)reACTIONary
(7,456 posts)David__77
(24,929 posts)reACTIONary
(7,456 posts).... answering directly?
That seems to work in some of these cases. Sometimes the "pivot" seems to me to be basically an admission that the accusation is true.
Don't know if that would be best, but it might work.
David__77
(24,929 posts)And it shows who he is serving
reACTIONary
(7,456 posts).... go with "new deal democrat"!
Cirsium
(4,284 posts)If you are explaining, you are losing.
Why are you worried about us appearing radical? Why are we talking about identity - "I am such and such." Don't operate within the Republican framing. That is extremely weak.
Trump is not trying to win voters with the "Communist" charge. He is playing us. He is trying to get us to flail around defending ourselves and arguing with each other, and it is working. Do not take the bait.
Don't people recognize the Republican playbook yet?
Trump: "they are Communists."
Gullible Democrats: "We are not Communists."
Trump: "they claim they aren't Communist, but who knows. Some very well respected people are saying, I saw that somewhere."
MSM for the next 6 months "let's discuss this hot issue. Trump claims Democrats are Communists. Is there any truth to that? Democrats claim they are not Communists, Our panel will discuss both sides."
catbyte
(39,501 posts)
DemocracyForever
(386 posts)and put Trump/GOP on the defensive. Their agenda is clearly taken from Hitler's paybook as in forcing women to give birth against their will, hatred of immigrants, hatred of anyone who doesn't look like them, no dissent, no holding the government accountable, no protesting, government telling companies how to run their business's and the list goes on.
Martin68
(28,391 posts)their world view requires that their enemies be scary and dangerous. These people do not listen to reason. They don't want to listen to reason. They will stick their fingers in their ears and go "La-la-la-la-la-la..."
krawhitham
(5,121 posts)Doodley
(12,167 posts)blm
(114,871 posts)
?fit=scaleBlumancru
(414 posts)We are dealing with yamheads.
Anyone running for anything needs to loudly condemn communism as the bankrupt failed philosophy that it is.
Make the point that communism always ends in totalitarianism.
Dont try to explain the finer points. That is like explaining calculus to a cat.
They need to hear this from us. Say it over and over. Stop letting that squealing snot Stephen Miller (aka Roy Cohns reincarnation) define us.
ck4829
(38,214 posts)They could be for throwing virgins into volcanoes to appease the billionaires and you would be a "communist" for being against that.
Karasu
(2,419 posts)To a Republican--least of all a modern Republican--everyone on the left is a communist. Period. Full stop.
BannonsLiver
(21,085 posts)
mdbl
(9,050 posts)"I also like to breathable air and clean drinking water"
hadEnuf
(3,692 posts)LeftInTX
(35,078 posts)Democratic Party.
The Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL) is a communist political party in the United States. PSL formed in 2004, when its members split from the Workers World Party.
PSL describes itself as a revolutionary socialist party in the Leninist tradition, because the party believes that only a revolution can end capitalism and establish socialism. PSL pursues this goal by participating in local protests, running candidates in elections, and conducting political education.[7][8]
Notable members include Claudia De la Cruz, Eugene Puryear, Gloria La Riva, Jodi Dean, and Michael Prysner.
I wished Biden would have investigated their financial scheme, but Trump is investigating them. I blame them for the 2024 presidential loss.
Sorry about the RW link. I googled "federal investigation of party for socialism and liberation" and this is the most recent. I find it ironic that Trump is investigating the political party that put him in the WH in 2024. I have heard that some of the GOP, like Roger Stone supported them financially. So, I think this is going nowhere.
House Republicans have alleged ties between Singham and the Party for Liberation and Socialism, the Peoples Forum, the ANSWER Coalition and more than a dozen other far-left groups.
Another article more in-depth. It's a yahoo version of a Fox News article
https://www.yahoo.com/news/politics/articles/doj-launches-grand-jury-probe-120011239.html
(I don't know if any of the DSA candidates have any ties to PSL, but Democrats should not have ties to other pollitical parties. We don't have ties to the GOP and we also should not have ties to the PSL, whose goal is to destroy the Democratic Party. We're the Democratic Party, we support electing Democrats. We should not have support for any group that wants to destroy our party)
Note: The DSA, which endorses Bernie Sanders etc is not a political party. It is not the same as Party for the Socialism and Liberation. But they do have ties unfortunately. The DSA can decide who it wants to endorse. They can endorse a candidate from any political party.
Neville Roy Singham (born May 13, 1954)[1] is an American businessman and social activist. He is the founder and former chairman of Thoughtworks, an IT consulting company that provides custom software, software tools, and consulting services, which he sold to a private equity firm for $785 million in 2017.
In 2019, Singham started a consulting business with partners in the publicity department of the Chinese Communist Party; the partners are co-owners with Tongren City (Guizhou province) of a "media company that promotes anti-poverty policies" according to The New York Times.[3][4]
Singham, a socialist, is a benefactor of far-left causes, and an admirer of Maoism. According to The New York Times, he has provided significant funding for media outlets, organizations, and politicians around the world that promote pro-Chinese government propaganda.[5]
India also investigated Singham and pretty much came up empty handed.
________________
Anyway, stay clear of them. There is always a little bit of truth to what Trump says. These PSL groups are everywhere and they have been protesting amongst Democrats. (You can tell PSL by their signs on wooden stakes) Democrats should not take pictures with them or get friendly with them.
Anyway, just say, "I can't stand that Party for Socialism and Liberation" and you're good to go!
We're the Democratic Party. We are not the communist party. We are not the Green Party. We do not support them!