I wish we'd stop tossing the ball to sailors and lower level officers.

[LAS14]

I wasn't happy with the implications of the video that Mark Kelly and friends made about soldiers and sailors' obligation not to obey unlawful orders. I wasn't happy because there's no clear consensus that any laws have been broken in the attacks on boats in the Carribean. I believe laws have been broken, but lots and lots of people are claiming otherwise. So we're asking sailors and low level officers to be sure about the legal situation? I don't think so.

Then today Rep Adam Smith was interviewed on The Newshour and, as I remember it (not exact quotes) he said these things?

Do you think laws were broken?

I'm very concerned and we need to have an investigation.

What do you think the sailors and officers should have done?

I think they should follow the example of Mark Kelly. (Me: What does that mean? He's only willing to be concerned, but he wants sailors and officers to refuse to obey orders????)

[haele]

1. Political nuance. And there's legal implications already

If he said what the UCMJ required, the sailors and officers all are looking at Courts Martial. And jail time.
So yeah, there needs to be a proper investigation. And trial.
So honestly, he really can't say much more than that in public, especially if he's going be part of the investigation.

[Prairie Gates]

2. How long is DU going to put up with this?

[WarGamer]

5. with what?

[surfered]

3. Leadership. The officers are supposed to know the rules of engagement.

When in doubt, it should be about right and wrong.

[NoRethugFriends]

4. A glorious pile of malarkey

[stopdiggin]

6. It's always been a fairly specious argument

And Mark Kelly, and others are fully aware of that. (as their experience leads them to have every reason to be) But you make a good point in highlighting the hypocrisy involved. Let's take a poll of all those that have served in uniform: "During your service, how many times did you refuse an 'illegal order'?" "During same period, how many times did you observe 'others' refusing illegal orders?" Which just might serve well to highlight - why, oh why, are we laying this off on the swabbies and grunts serving on the line?

The coup de grace of surviving sailors being the possible rare exception where this might in fact have been in play ...
(and, as we can see, - nobody jumped up to say, "No, sir!" "I will not ... " )

[HAB911]

7. Disobeying any order is suicide

I've never had any faith in 99% of soldiers being in a position to disobey. They are in an impossible situation they can't possibly survive. Suicide now by disobeying, or suicide later at courts martial.