Of Course Americans are BROKE

[Mr.Bee]

It's been an ongoing Republicant project.

FDR's concept of the minimum wage was to establish a "living wage" that protected workers from exploitation and increased their purchasing power to stimulate the economy. He believed businesses paying less than a decent wage had no right to exist and that the minimum wage should be enough for a "decent living," not just bare subsistence. This led to the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938.

Check the record: the minimum wage was raised every single year to keep up with the cost of living.

That is, until 1980, when it was frozen for nine years.

The 1990 increase didn't keep up.
Second unprecedented minimum wage FREEZE 10 years during Clinton/Bush.
Third unprecedented minimum wage FROZEN since 2009!

2009. The minimum wage has now been frozen SIXTEEN years.

Now when you consider the transfer of wealth to employers and corporations for a total of 35 years of people not being paid a living wage, of course CEOs are rich. Not to mention raising the cost of every item households depend on.

[yellow dahlia]

1. Thank you for the data.

[Mr.Bee]

2. Hiding In Plain Sight

Every retail job I've applied for in the last twenty years asked me, 'we'll start you out at a couple dollars an hour above minimum wage, how do you feel about that?' Like they were doing me a great favor.

Multiply $7.25 an hour by eight hours (they never want you working overtime)
then multiply that by five days, then multiple that by four weeks.

I'll tell you, $58 a day before taxes.
$290 a week.
$1160 a month

...and how much is rent? Utilities? Gas? Groceries?

[Diamond_Dog]

3. My MAGA relatives would say,

“Not all jobs are meant to provide a living wage.”

[Mr.Bee]

6. I would tell them

FDR never said that. FDR believed the minimum wage should provide a "living wage".

[Diamond_Dog]

11. Well, you can imagine how they feel about FDR.

My late brother-in-law hated JFK!

[Diamond_Dog]

22. Did any of them ever stop to think

there would be way less need for SNAP if jobs paid a living wage?

No, they’re too busy assuming SNAP recipients sit on the couch smoking crack all day.

[markodochartaigh]

17. I certainly heard that line many times over the years in

Texas.

[popsdenver]

49. EVER SINCE REAGAN, (actually HWBush's CABAL)

I have heard the businesses, (corporations) say the following:

WE CAN'T FIND ANYONE WHO "WANTS" TO WORK............

But they never finish the sentence:

WE CAN'T FIND ANYONE WHO WANTS TO WORK, FOR THE LOW WAGE, I WANT TO PAY......................

There are a TON of Jobs out there that don't pay much more than they paid 40-50 years ago.....

[Diamond_Dog]

50. ++++1000

They think everyone should be grateful for the privilege to work for peanuts!

[popsdenver]

51. If the Republicans continue

The top 1% will be in the Upper-Upper Class, all the other 99% will be crushed into the Lower-Lower Class.

I hadn't read the Grapes of Wrath by Steinbeck since the 8th Grade & didn't remember much. So I re-read it recently and it frightened me immensely.
If we think the current "homeless" are an issue, people haven't read about the "Hooverville" massive communities in the Great Depression. Steinbeck writes about the DAILY existence of a family in one of the Hoovervilles, and all the masses there with them.........
At the rate Trump, Steven Miller(2025), and Russell Voght are accelerating things more every day, I think by Christmas/New Years a major amount of the 99% are going to get hammered royal. If not by then, certainly by next spring..........I know several people permanently laid off from their Federal Government employment, and a large number of others, sweating every day that passes that they will get thrown to the wolves also......
And that will lead to a cascading domino effect, that will spread far and wide through the entire economy, just like the Republican's Tariffs have done already.
Join me in getting Dems to say REPUBLICANS, rather than just saying TRUMP. The REPUBLICANS & Corporations are what put him in power, and are keeping him in power.......they don't like that he is a loose cannon and goes off all the time, but he serves their purpose by providing the Republican owned/operated mass media something to report on, vs all the shit the Republican Party is doing in the shadows, behind smoke an mirrors......
Every single Republican in the House, Senate, and Supreme Court backs him 100%.......if they didn't, Trump wouldn't have lasted a day in the White House and out of Leavenworth or Colorado Super Max Prison.....

[pat_k]

4. Median wage has been stagnant relative to productivity for 45 years.

Workers are more productive than ever before, yet median income has been stagnant for the past 45 years.



The absurdly low minimum wage, the busting of unions and weakening of their power, are part of the problem. As Piketty points out, capital has been growing at a faster rate than the larger economy. Without policy intervention, the inevitable result is what we see -- the evermore obscene concentration of wealth.

The horrible truth is that not only have we failed to implement policies that counter the movement of dollars from the hands of the many to the hands of the few, we have done THE OPPOSITE.

Minimum wage that reflects the increase in productivity, progressive income tax, wealth tax, inheritance tax are the bare minimum.

As we advocate for these things, we MUST do more than cite vague benefits, like strengthening safety nets, blah, blah. In addition to Universal Health Care, we need to be levying these taxes for something truly transformative -- something like Piketty-style "Inheritance for all"

And I think we need to be calling on our electeds to start advocating for Inheritance for All NOW.

We will never build the political will for such transformative change if no one is advocating for it.

Silence and surrendering in advance on anything the Democratic consultant class deems "unwinnable" helped bring us to this point.

I know many object to using AI summaries, but this one on inheritance for all does a better job of summarizing than I could:

Piketty's "inheritance for all" is a proposal for a one-time state payment of a substantial sum, like €120,000, to every citizen when they turn 25. The goal is to reduce wealth inequality by providing a capital transfer to young adults, funded by progressive wealth and inheritance taxes on the wealthy. This would give those with little to no inherited wealth more financial power for opportunities like education, housing, or starting a business.

What it is: A universal, one-time payment given to every citizen at age 25.
How it's funded: By significantly increasing wealth and inheritance taxes on the wealthiest individuals and estates.

How much: The amount is proposed to be around €120,000 or $150,000-$180,000 in other contexts.

The goal: To counteract the inequality created by inherited wealth by providing a "starter capital" for all young adults, thereby increasing their financial power and life choices.

Context: It is presented as one part of a broader "participatory socialism" plan, which also includes other reforms like higher income taxes and worker co-determination in corporations.

As we advocate for a progressive tax on income, tax on wealth, and tax on inheritance, we need connect it with a concrete benefit for ALL. Inheritance for all is that concrete benefit. And it is absolutely necessary to reverse the inevitable, and increasingly obscene, concentration of wealth that is driven by the fact that capital grows at a faster rate than the overall economy (see Piketty's Capital in the 21st Century).

[erronis]

7. Please supply reference links. Not disputing your excerpts, but backup documentation is needed.

And please don't tell me to go altavista all your text....

[Mr.Bee]

9. Oh! I beg pardon-

I believe it's called 'Google'

[pat_k]

10. World Economic Forum, Capital in the 21st Century,

Productivity Pay Gap (the chart I included is the same graphic but starting with 1979 as the index,
https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

Re: Capital in the 21st Century (2014) (all graphics are available online)
http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/en/capital21c2

The Piketty equation is most famously known as (r>g), the "fundamental formula of inequality," which states that the rate of return on capital ((r)) is greater than the rate of economic growth ((g)). This inequality implies that wealth held by capital owners will accumulate faster than the overall economy grows, leading to increasing wealth concentration and inequality over time.  


Capital and Idealogy (2019)
The global inheritance notion is discussed in this book.

I haven't read his other books yet. You remind me that they've been on my list too long.

[erronis]

15. Thank you!

[Mr.Bee]

12. They've been stealing from us for decades

they've gotten tax cuts so WE can pay their taxes!
When there's no more tax cuts - they come for the SOCIAL SAFETY NET!

[pat_k]

14. FWIW

I answered erronis in Posts 10 and 13

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220768060#post10

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220768060#post13

[pat_k]

13. Regarding weakening of unions and tax law that facilitated concentration of wealth:

I assumed the facts supporting my statements regarding weakening of unions and laws that facilitated, rather than countered concentration of wealth, were widely known, but if not, here you go

Laws that have weakened unions since the 1950s
Taft-Hartley Act of 1947
Landrum-LaGuardia Act of 1959
State-level "right-to-work" laws that diminish collective bargaining power.
Deregulation and lax enforcement of labor laws have indirectly weakened unions by empowering anti-union employer practices.

EPI
Explaining the erosion of private-sector unions
How corporate practices and legal changes have undercut the ability of workers to organize and bargain
https://www.epi.org/unequalpower/publications/private-sector-unions-corporate-legal-erosion/

Tax law facilitating concentration of wealth and wealth inequality

Reduction in Top Marginal Income Tax Rates:
Top marginal income tax rate was 70%. in 1980
Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981 lowered this to 50%,
Tax Reform Act of 1986 further reduced it to 28%.
Subsequent acts adjusted this rate, but the general trajectory remained low, sitting around 37% by the end of the period.
These cuts provided massive annual tax reductions for the wealthiest individuals, allowing them to accumulate and invest more income, thus increasing their wealth.

Preferential Capital Gains Tax Rates:
From the 1980's through 2025, capital gains tax rates remained low compared to historical levels and ordinary income rates. This allowed the wealthy, whose income largely derives from capital gains, to grow their fortunes much faster than average wage earners, whose income is primarily from labor.

Weakening of the Estate Tax:
The estate tax, designed to prevent the formation of dynastic wealth, was significantly weakened through changes in exemption levels and rates over the decades. This has allowed larger fortunes to be passed down through generations without being subject to substantial taxation, entrenching wealth concentration over time.

Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 (TCJA):
The 2017 tax bill included deep cuts to personal, corporate, and estate taxes that were heavily skewed toward the wealthy and corporations. Key provisions like the 20% deduction for pass-through business income largely benefited the richest business owners. These changes further eroded the tax burden on the top income brackets, contributing to the ongoing rise in wealth inequality.

[markodochartaigh]

19. Republicans always talk about "redistribution of wealth".

This chart shows that the wealth has already been redistributed by the time the worker gets their check.

[pat_k]

23. Yes, R's have been hellbent on systematically "redistributing wealth" from the hands of the many to the hands of the few

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2025, 03:15 PM - Edit history (1)

... for decades. And Democrats have done very very little to counter it. Some small adjustments around the margins, but nothing that would actually address the fundamentally destabilizing force of capital growing at a faster rate than the broader economy, and the resultant ever-increasing concentration of wealth in the hands of the few.

And they have built an incredibly fragile economy in the process. More on that in post #18
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220768060#post18

[FakeNoose]

40. Why don't the labor unions understand these charts and data?

Voting R has never been in their best interest, and certainly not for the last 45 years....

[pat_k]

41. Sadly, a great deal of damage had been done by '60.

Here's a graph with a longer timeline where you can see the divergence taking off right around 1960.
https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

Reagan's union busting and anti-union propaganda took off in the 80's. That was followed by the rise of the radical right noise machine.

Propaganda is a very powerful thing.

Laws that have weakened unions since the 1950s
Taft-Hartley Act of 1947
Landrum-LaGuardia Act of 1959
State-level "right-to-work" laws that diminish collective bargaining power.
Deregulation and lax enforcement of labor laws have indirectly weakened unions by empowering anti-union employer practices.

EPI
Explaining the erosion of private-sector unions
How corporate practices and legal changes have undercut the ability of workers to organize and bargain
https://www.epi.org/unequalpower/publications/private-sector-unions-corporate-legal-erosion/

[Javaman]

5. That also means that the current business model

Is also out dated.

Starting a business with the premise of paying your workers 1990 minimum wage is straight out of the repukes handbook

[Mr.Bee]

8. FDR's concept of the minimum wage:

Protecting workers: FDR's principal goal was to prevent employers from abusing workers by paying extremely low wages. He famously stated, “no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country”.

Defining a "living wage": He clarified that a living wage was "more than a bare subsistence level—I mean the wages of decent living". He intended for the wage to support fully employed adult men and women, not just part-time or teenage workers.

Boosting the economy: The minimum wage was also seen as a tool for economic recovery. By increasing workers' purchasing power, they would spend more, which in turn would stimulate the economy and encourage businesses to hire more workers.

Legislation: The Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 was the landmark legislation that established the first federal minimum wage, though initial attempts to pass similar laws were struck down by the Supreme Court.

[pat_k]

18. And, policies that concentrate wealth in the hands of the few at the expense of the many make for a very fragile economy

The top 10% account for 50% of our spending. If the market goes down and they get nervous, they can easily cut their spending 30%, 50%, or more.

For the rest of us, an overwhelming portion of our spending is on essentials. We aren't able to cut back anywhere near that much.

As our economy becomes more and more and more dependent on the wealthiest spending a lot of money, it becomes ever more fragile. Something happens that prompts them to cut way back, and we go straight into recession.

In addition, with America going ALL IN on AI, the market has become incredibly fragile.

The top 10 stocks in the S&P 500 account for 40% of the index’s market cap. Since ChatGPT launched in November 2022, AI-related stocks have registered 75% of S&P 500 returns, 80% of earnings growth, and 90% of capital spending growth. Meanwhile, AI investments accounted for nearly 92% of the U.S. GDP growth this year. Without those AI investments, Harvard economist Jason Furman noted, growth would be flat. As Ruchir Sharma concluded in the Financial Times, “America is now one big bet on AI,” adding, “AI better deliver for the U.S., or its economy and markets will lose the one leg they are now standing on.” This concentration creates fragility, and how the end begins becomes more visible.

More facts and figures with references in Prof G's recent article "How Does the End Begin"
https://www.profgalloway.com/how-does-the-end-begin/

Republicans have been intentionally building this incredibly fragile economy by steadily shoveling money at the wealthy, to make them wealthier, and keep them spending. There is NO "trickle down," only "trickle up." And now they are propping up AI with vast expenditures of our treasury dollars and by allowing a host of circular, incestuous deals that are massively and artificially inflating values.

This is a VERY bad thing for economic and political stability. We have been heading toward a breaking point of some kind for a long, long time.. I firmly believe the trump insanity is the last gasp before things seriously falls apart.

We may yet save ourselves by implementing truly transformative reforms in time, but even with that, there will be a scary time of adjustment from our current obscenely immoral and fragile economy to a more moral and robust economy.

[Metaphorical]

34. I very much concur

Trump is not an aberration, but the culmination of about 60-70 years of deliberate attempts to destroy the middle class.

[Initech]

16. And who was in charge then? Oh yeah Ronald Reagan.

He planted the seeds for this bullshit.

[Diamond_Dog]

20. Yes he certainly did.

[KS Toronado]

21. Ronald Reagan was elected president in 1980

So Raygun got the ball rolling to keep workers poor while promising the rich would trickle down so much
money to keep us happy and living in the lap of luxury.

When we get all 3 Houses back in 2028 we need to raise the minimum wage a nickel or dime every week
or a quarter a month until it gets to $21 an hour. Slowing raising it would be less shock on small businesses
which we need.

Hell we should campaign on it, "Help us pull everybody out of poverty"

[pat_k]

24. Must do more than raise the minimum wage. Inheritance tax, wealth tax, capital gains taxed higher than labor and...

progressive income tax, and use the money to finance basic income or inheritance for all. Or perhaps "adjustment grants" to small businesses (but its harder to envision how to do that in a way that wouldn't be abused by law firms and other businesses that manage to be counted as "small" even though they are enormous money mills).

[KS Toronado]

32. Oh there's a ton of stuff we need to get done and quickly.

[pat_k]

33. My big worry is that too few of our electeds are out there advocating for the big stuff.

Just because something seems out of reach today doesn't mean you have to keep quiet about it.

You can only build political will by advocating, loud and proud for the type of transformational changes we need to address critical moral failings in how things work.

Our candidates and electeds can help us build a vision of what we want/need -- something that actually inspires others to get on board to make the dream a reality. But I think more of them need pushes from us to break the habit of "can't win, won't fight."

The thing is, as you are building political will for the big stuff, you change the boundaries of the possible. And you have a better shot at actually accomplishing changes, now, that move the big goal closer.

[Metaphorical]

35. A tax on spending rather than income

Set an arbitrary minimum limit, such as $1M per year which incurs no taxes, certain exemptions (first house for instance), with progressively higher tax brackets as spending increases. Apply the same principle to corporations - if they buy a CEO contract, they will have to pay the taxes on that contract, while spending per employee starts to incur taxes above $250,000 a year including compensation. Taxes are paid within the seller's jurisdiction.

The idea is simple - the notion of an income tax by itself is regressive because it penalizes savers - those who build capital - while rewarding spenders - those who consume capital. It also concentrates power because the biggest spenders usually end up with the most power. A spending tax forces corporations to invest into pools with no one investor being able to dominate that pool - you need to raise capital, then you need to create a community of investors to do so.

This may seem counterintuitive but I think the problem we're facing at the moment is we have too much capital investment by too few people, and we ironically have far more capital than is actually needed, given advances in technology. It also forces both people and corporates to save rather than to rely upon debt to capitalize a project. Day to day spending by most people is not affected, other than the fact that there isn't a frantic rush to spend on needless purchases because the system is geared towards spending.

[MichMan]

31. Should be at least $30 per hour

Raise it $1 per month.

A couple working full time would make over $100k a year

[pat_k]

42. Seattle's minimum wage is 20.76 and will increase to 21.30 1/1/26

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2025, 04:08 PM - Edit history (1)

All employers, regardless of size, must pay this rate, with no exceptions for tips or benefits. The hourly wage is adjusted annually based on inflation in the Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue area.

Yes, there has been pain, but the economy is growing just fine.

Added on edit:
GDP growth: The Seattle metro area's GDP grew by 6.2% from 2022 to 2023, outperforming all other U.S. metro areas with a population over 1.5 million.

The cost of housing is our current pain point. (And related homelessness is at intolerable levels that keep being tolerated).

For working people who earn below median income, there is a Multi-Family Tax Exempt (MTFE) program, where developers get good deals on loans and taxes to include 10% or more affordable units -- i.e., rent + basic utilities like water and garbage capped at 1/3 of some percentage of median income. The percentage is the maximum you can earn to qualify for the type of MFTE unit. Developers get better deals for lower percentages, but what seems most common is 60, 65, 70, and 75. I'm in a unit capped at 65%, which is around $50,000. You don't get kicked out of you earn more the following year because you can requalify at a higher income the subsequent years.

There are from from enough of these units, but with all the new construction, it is possible. I got on a pre-leasing waiting list for a new building going up in an ideal location. I was fortunate to be able to live upstairs at my mom's while waiting. It did take about 8 months, but I love my place.

[MichMan]

25. The minimum wage as established in 1938 was 25 cents per hour

That would be equivalent today (with inflation), of $5.76 per hour.

[leftstreet]

27. But did it have the same purchasing power?

[dpibel]

30. In 1957, J. Paul Getty was worth $2-4 billion

Using the same sort of inflation calculator you seem to be using, that would make him worth, in current dollars, $46.2 billion.

He was the richest man in the world at the time.

Now?

A relative failure.

Aren't numbers fun?

[southmost]

26. Raygun made munimum wage political

[Bayard]

28. K&R

Thank you.

[Klarkashton]

29. Big corps worked to keep prices down and wages low.

Outsourced everything.
The only people making bank anymore are those involved with AI shit, because the push is to eliminate even more jobs.

[HarryM]

36. That goes back

To when all this crap begun. When Ronnie Rat Raygun stole the White House.

[cer7711]

37. So glad you pointed this out.

Well done and well said.

[Buttoneer]

38. Minimum wage should have been indexed to inflation like Social Security. n/t

[Hotler]

39. From the comercial. "I was drowning in debt."

[chouchou]

43. TOP TEN COUNTRIES of Minimum wage

Gosh...Where's the Good ol' USA?
.
Country Monthly Minimum Wage (USD Equivalent)
Luxembourg $2,570
Australia $2,455
New Zealand $2,190
Ireland $2,130
Netherlands $2,100
Germany $2,080
Belgium $2,060
France $2,020
Canada (average) $1,900
United Kingdom $1,850

[BlueWavePsych]

44. K&R

[Godot51]

45. "republicans"...

... have hated and have tried to destroy FDR's New Deal since its inception. Who cares about the impoverished, the disabled, the workers, the mothers, the children, and even the "middle" class?

Their recent successes are simply the beginning of reintroduction poverty to the vast majority of the people so enhance their own wealth and profits.

Little things such as the stock market crash, the crashes of the savings and loans, the housing crash, ad infinitum show how their policies are a mere game for riches among their rich constituents.

Soon we'll be bandying the word "trillionaire" as we now use the word billionaire and once, so long ago, used the word millionaire.

And the owners of drumpf, his administrations members, the senate, the house, and the judiciary are all fighting to be the first trillionaire.

[Mr.Bee]

46. When You Say 'Republicans'

I think the Eisenhower party.
When the racist Southern Demoncrats defected to the Republican party in 1964
due to the passage of the Civil Rights Act, they became 'Republican'ts'
The party of DEPLORABLES.
They CAN'T govern, and All they can do, is cut and shift tax burdens.
They CAN'T. Stop voting for them. Stop listening to them...

[Grins]

47. "... until 1980, when it was frozen for nine years."

1980 was an election year.
Carter was president.
Reagan was sworn in 20 January 1981.

I can’t see Carter or D’s doing this, so are you sure of your dates?

However, I do believe for the next 9 years Reagan and Bush did nothing! Purposely!!

[Mr.Bee]

48. The last Increase Before Reagan

Jan 1981 $.25 = $3.35 in 1981 had the same buying power as $12.25
and then it was frozen until 1990.

Apr 1990 $.45 an hour, first increase in 9 years and 4 months.
$3.80 in 1990 had the same buying power as $9.51

[Mr.Bee]

52. In 2025

an hour's worth of work at minimum wage can barely even buy a dozen eggs.