General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI would like to know exactly what underlies the Trump/GOP obsession with DEI.
I understand that they want to be sure mediocre white men get first dibs on jobs and that nobody gets in trouble at work just because they said "n****r" out loud, but it has to be something even deeper than that. There must be some intense, festering hate at the bottom of it. Have any of them ever even looked at DEI training materials? I really doubt it.
I had to take an online DEI course because I'm a volunteer with a program sponsored by our state university, and I found it completely uncontroversial, even a little boring, because the points were so obvious: Don't make assumptions about other people on account of their race/gender/religion/disability, etc., don't use slurs or nicknames; don't urge your religion on others; be respectful and kind; be aware of topics that might be controversial or hurtful. Avoid the sort of behavior that identifies you as a bigoted asshole and makes other people uncomfortable working with you, basically. The course was presented in a rather dry way, too much academic and corporate jargon that made it sort of a yawn, but I couldn't find anything in that would offend or upset anyone who wasn't a bigoted asshole. It certainly didn't suggest that white people were bad in any way.
So why is DEI such a horrible thing that it causes funding to be cut off, thousands of people fired, whole programs scrapped? This is some evil shit that goes beyond just the hurt feelings of weak, stupid white guys.
Shell_Seas
(3,490 posts)Dorian Gray
(13,754 posts)Yes, Trump et al are racists and they've embraced a talking point that they think resonates with people. DEIB is important to communities. Diversity can strengthen organizations -- you want diverse perspectives for sure. You want equitable work places. You want to include people of various backgrounds in the decision making, and you want them to feel like they belong in the room.
But what made this a successful line of attack by the republicans were the excesses of the movement. People like Saira Rao and her organization Race2Dinner, for instance. Then White Fragility by Robin D'Angelo -- a book that has had backlash within the DEIB community. The questions about the misappropriation of funds in Ibram X Kendi's Center for Antiracist Research at BU (which BU cleared him of). Rather than celebrating the various identities and cultures, some professionals focused on the negativity and divisions. It created a wedge. LatinX (did anybody consult members of the Latino community about that who weren't activists or academia?). The DEIB industry in the non profit circles I run in has had a serious reckoning and course change in the last two years.
Trump and his advisors aren't exactly the inwardly looking types. They took these divisions and ran with them, and it isn't super surprising.
JCMach1
(28,237 posts)Specifically the myth of reverse discrimination.
Ocelot II
(122,381 posts)It covers issues of gender (well, we know they hate LGBTQ people, especially trans people - and I don't get that, either), disability, religion, all the characteristics that might make someone "different" and thereby treated in an unfavorable way. The opposition to DEI is so intense as to be irrational, even psychotic.
JCMach1
(28,237 posts)Also, RW corporations had this on the list and have been astroturfing opposition via Maga washing programs.
soldierant
(8,135 posts)said it better than I am going to. Yeah, it's racism, but we who are not racists do not get what racism means to them. They believe in their hearts that white men being in charge of everything is the natural order - even a God-ordained order, some of them - and anything that conflicts with that makes the entire universe feel out of control.
Parents of white sons, please understand that this narrative is embedded in society, and you must look our foe it and try to clean it out for your sons. Not by authoritarian parenting - that would probably make it worse - but through respectful parenting which leads them to think it out foe themselves. And good luck.
leftstreet
(36,427 posts)phylny
(8,633 posts)of book bans, abortion, and trans issues. Just another wedge.
ShazzieB
(19,149 posts)But it's not "taking the place of" trans issues. The trans community has been in the crosshairs of RW hate for a while now, and trans folks are among the marginalized groups that DEI programs teach people to be fair and respectful to.
I would even say that the rights of trans people (especially trans kids) are under more intensive and focused attack than the rights of any other marginalized group (with the possible exception of immigrants who are now living in fear of deportation).
Trump and his flying monkeys want to eliminate all DEI programs because those programs are a threat to their hate campaign against women, bipoc people, and LGBTQ people, including those represented by the "T" in LGBTQ.
phylny
(8,633 posts)no slight meant to our trans community. I just meant they continue to mine more and more rage topics.
ShazzieB
(19,149 posts)mike_c
(36,428 posts)Plain and straightforward. Nothing but bigotry.
Alpeduez21
(1,889 posts)Bluethroughu
(6,460 posts)Equity, they are about the money.
Inclusion, they are against ANYTHING FOR ALL.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,950 posts)Lovie777
(15,942 posts)to instill fear that POC are trying to take their livelihood away.
Lemons UK
(128 posts)walkingman
(8,749 posts)jls4561
(1,872 posts)Younger, better looking, better educated, more eloquent, able to read and comprehend, more compassionate, better dancer
And BLACK!! Dammit!
Klarkashton
(2,662 posts)They are in denial that there is fundamental racism
And if it were hands off by the government it will all take care of itself.
dickthegrouch
(3,774 posts)They said there's no institutional racism.
Hopefully they aren't so craven or blind that they can't see there's a "new", bolder racism that needs their attention, if "equal protection" is to mean anything next week.
The Unmitigated Gall
(4,703 posts)Were about destroying the caste system that has ruled this nation since before its founding. Whats happening now IMO is the attempt to return that system full-force.
Brenda
(1,396 posts)The John Birchers, the Christian Nationalists, KKK/Nazis, etc. have been hacking away since 1980 (well some before then but Raygun happened).
Thanks to so many ignorant, indifferent and downright brain damaged American citizens we're faced with this current shitstream of chaos where DEI, basically material that reflects the ethos of America - Freedom and Equality, is being thrown out as if it's the Satanic Bible.
AZJonnie
(227 posts)N*****s, We****ks, Q****s, The Disabled, Women, and Veterans who were seriously wounded or captured (losers, iow), etc, and wants life to suck for them.
The next simplest answer is that the people who vote for him (and give him money and show up to his hate rallies) in turn hate 'those people' (and/or buy into the replacement theory bullshit), and he's a power-hungry pathological narcissist.
sop
(12,180 posts)LakeArenal
(29,913 posts)keep_left
(2,628 posts)...foundations and "think" tanks. Christopher Rufo, the same asshole behind the "woke" moral panic, also seems to have a big hand in the DEI "controversy".
https://race.usc.edu/2024/03/19/2517/
https://gender.stanford.edu/news/attacks-dei-white-anxieties-moral-panics-and-material-impacts
https://www.aclu.org/news/free-speech/anti-dei-efforts-are-the-latest-attack-on-racial-equity-and-free-speech
Johnny2X2X
(22,073 posts)They literally think any woman and every minority do not deserve their jobs because they think they took them from a mroe qualified white guy.
That's at their root, I know this, I hear this in my life. At their core, they think only white men are capable.
pnwest
(3,300 posts)...you laid it out perfectly in your post. Intense, festering fear IS at the bottom of racist hate. And DEI initiatives EMBODY their fear of being "replaced".
Ocelot II
(122,381 posts)is so overwhelming and ultimately self-destructive. They are shutting down the government just to remove all traces of DEI or of anything that could be construed as derived from it. I'm not surprised that they don't want DEI in their agencies' HR materials or training; what seems insane is the scorched-earth efforts to obliterate it from everything, since the collateral damage will be considerable and the blowback will be enormous. FAFO, I guess.
Biophilic
(5,181 posts)It can touch just about everyone because it is so ambiguous and broad. It gets everyone stirred up, both the MAGAs and the decent folk. It is the perfect dividing issue to get us all at each others throats. I very fearfully have to admit that those behind project 2025 are very smart.
Ocelot II
(122,381 posts)If they just wanted to get DEI out of federal agencies all they'd have had to do is close out those offices, but they've gone much farther. It's kind of insane.
Biophilic
(5,181 posts)I really believe this was chosen deliberately to increase both the fear and loathing on our side as well as the excitement and seeming joy from the MAGAs. Quite bluntly I think we have been out foxed and than some.
LeftInTX
(31,882 posts)SARose
(1,057 posts)Once again here is this bright shiny ball called DEI and woke - whatever that is.
The price of eggs is increasing.
MAGA has done nothing to deal with guns and butter issues.
Cheeto man is spending $82,000/flight to transfer 80/90 migrants back to their home countries. Bidens flights cost about $8,000 and transported more people.
Trumps approval rating is going down and the disapproval rate jumped from 39% to 46%.
Annnddd the Republicans are at Doral this weekend kissing a$$ while the orange one plays golf while Merica burns.
hlthe2b
(107,530 posts)women who supposedly got all the "help," then it explains their own failures. And heaven knows they are not EVER going to admit that a black, brown or Asian person--much less a WOMAN of any race/ethnicity could be BETTER than they are. So, yeah, racism, but racism is likewise a convenient target for their own self-hatred.
iemanja
(55,306 posts)which is the goal.
EarnestPutz
(2,733 posts)mucifer
(24,985 posts)tulipsandroses
(6,623 posts)He wants to destroy or damage black communities.
The same for women. I think he has a hatred for women.
He takes pleasure in inflicting pain on his enemies.
That's why he just sat and watched the riots on Jan 6. He enjoyed it.
Roxi
(2,167 posts)They want to return to the pre-Civil War era, when non-whites were slaves and women were nothing but chattel.
DEI isnt just for removing barriers due to race. Its also responsible for forcing white men to treat women as human beings (at least in the workforce), and good ol boys dont like that.
As depressing as it is, I think this is just the beginning of a really dark period in our countrys history. Im really worried about what the future holds for my kids and grandkids.
Irish_Dem
(62,129 posts)Their power will be permanent, total, and absolute.
Everyone else with be humiliated, powerless, and afraid.
White males are furious that their power was being eroded by women and minority groups.
They are threatened on many levels including sexually.
dickthegrouch
(3,774 posts)I was pilloried for attempting to coin that term here many years ago.
However, I still believe it has some merit.
I'll define the term as reserved for any purported christian who doesn't live up to the ideals of Christ in word and deed. Someone who hides behind the bible without having understood (or read) it. Someone who who doesn't even call out or work against the so-called leaders of their community when they parrot unchristian values.
Some organisations (the KKK, duh) are inherently KKKristian.
Current GOP is KKKristian.
Irish_Dem
(62,129 posts)The GOP uses Christianity as a weapon against all kinds of groups.
It is not just racist, it is also sexist and and anti-LGBT, anti-POC, etc.
To connect it to the KKK makes it look just racist, in reality it goes way beyond that.
littlemissmartypants
(26,351 posts)It's literally the nature of the beast. If there are laws to be broken, morals to disregard, evils to be elevated and pain to be inflicted it's literally all the psychopath lives for, it makes him tick.
There doesn't have to be a justification for anything. Manufacturing the most evil behavior possible is the fundamental moral compass of these freaks that are identified as psychopaths.
Think of it like this. If you have an idea of something good, think of the most outrageous distortion you can at the opposite end of the continuum and that's their go-to behavior.
Examples:
To love is to hurt.
To feel and inflict pain is joyful.
To help is to destroy.
To serve is to trample over.
To support is to eliminate all help.
Evil is the right thing to do.
Every day is opposite day.
It's a twisted mindset. Its difficult to understand and for the majority of people, it should be. Dont worry if it makes no sense to you. It's clearly good news if you have trouble wrapping your head around it because it is so fu>king perverse.
❤️pants
unblock
(54,394 posts)It's ideas like white peoples should be entitled to create a business where they never have to see a black person or a woman.
They see diversity is an evil infringement on their freedom to be bigots.
33taw
(3,006 posts)Tesha
(20,997 posts)Women and POC are taking jobs from men, family men.
You cant make dirty jokes and pinch behinds anymore! We need more men in power - take back the right to harass!
Men first, last and always.
In the NH House a few years ago a group of men refused to take the DEI, demanding the right to have their own training.
It was basically how to not let women cause you problems.
LonePirate
(13,972 posts)Hugin
(35,207 posts)Same conclusions.
Hugin
(35,207 posts)Fucking around and being assholes with no beautiful wife, fancy car, big house, or prospects of any kind.
THEY WUZ ROBBED!1!!1ii
alarimer
(16,741 posts)Never mind that no DEI hire is actually unqualified for whatever position they get. That's now how it works.
Some mediocre white guys in the form of right-wing nuts are aggrieved because they got passed over by SOMEONE WHO IS BETTER THAN THEY ARE and, instead of asking what they could do better, they just assumed it was because of DEI. We've all heard those complaints; we may have worked with or known these people who complained they got passed over for no good reason.
I know that when I lost out on a job or promotion (which was extremely frequent LOL), I always just assumed I could have done better. Or I was lacking some skill or whatever. You know, like a normal person and not like these losers.
moondust
(20,638 posts)Slavers were control freaks. Ya think their control freak mindset and way of raising white male children to be the next generation of control freaks disappeared with the abolition of slavery?
They've probably been bitterly watching many women and minorities rise to high positions and doing well there since the 60s-70s, and when there was finally a woman candidate for President in 2016--right after the black guy--they said ENOUGH!!! BACK TO THE GOOD OLD DAYS!!! WE OWN THIS PLACE!!! (Remember the "ownership society"?)
They got a "famous" racist/misogynist/criminal WWE thug to represent them and they went all in.
Bernardo de La Paz
(52,062 posts)Quiet Em
(1,464 posts)Just look at their obsession with Michelle Obama, Kamala Harris, Tish James and Fani Willis.
ForgedCrank
(2,487 posts)personal opinion, and based on what I hear in real life from these people instead of DU.
The problem they have is not equality. The problem they have is that the way they are seeing it, a lot of positions are filled based on race or gender as a priority, and that is absolutely illegal if that is what is happening. They also see standards lowered so that all so that women or minorities will qualify where they normally wouldn't have based on actual duty requirements. That is also not good if it is really happening.
Their points are valid in my opinion, except that I don't believe it is really happening. If someone has an advantage because of their race or gender, I would have to disagree with that policy. It goes against everything a Democrat should believe in, as in we are all equal in regard to our race or gender.
Ocelot II
(122,381 posts)back in the '80s. Disgruntled mediocre white guys complained that a woman or a black person got a job that by rights should have been theirs. As a woman working in a male-dominated profession I got that sort of crap all the time - I was assumed to have been an affirmative action hire and therefore less qualified than the men I worked with (and I was actually more qualified than most of them). Their points are not valid because it's not happening. Mediocre white guys still have the advantage despite DEI.
electric_blue68
(19,567 posts)it might get you in the door, but its not going to keep you there.
In other words on some rare occasions a less qualified POC, or woman was hired....most likely they'll be fired because they weren't doing a good job.
Imho
Keepthesoulalive
(952 posts)Look at all the mediocre white folks in this administration including the head idiot and tell me about qualified white people. Being a minority many times means you must be twice as good to get half as far. Competent black people have prosecuted him and white tech bros on government welfare kiss his fat ass.
Intractable
(780 posts)Authoritarians need scapegoats -- people to blame -- to keep the attention off their own failings.
regnaD kciN
(26,696 posts)Glad I could help you.
get the red out
(13,667 posts)I have had DEI training too, it all seemed to come down to not being an asshole to anyone. That's pretty good advice for any workplace, but demonizing it gives Republicans the permission to mistreat people they hate. No more being asked to assess their attitudes and try to improve them. It means that they are ok and never have to even consider changing because it is illegal for anyone to even suggest it.
malaise
(280,133 posts)That is all
doc03
(37,252 posts)If you watch Chicago Fire for instance. It is like they have check list for characters. This is what I hear from MAGAs, you have to have a mixed race marriage, a gay couple, a lesbian couple. a handicapped person. That is what I hear mostly about Biden he made a promise to appoint a woman VP, a woman on the SCOTUS, a gay here, a trans person there. It's like when we complain about Trump putting people in jobs they are not qualified for just because they are his friends. It works both ways.
What you are saying is true, top level.
But all the people you note placed/elected in governmental positions by Ds are very well qualified, highly capable and of good moral quality.
So, it isn't like DT putting in unqualified, incapable, immoral morons, or capable psychopaths or lunatic partisans.
Our obhection
doc03
(37,252 posts)it sounds like a quota. They are brainwashed into thinking Trump's people are qualified. Biden was always a moderate,
I think he let the more liberal side influence him too much.
spooky3
(36,744 posts)20 (probably hundreds of) highly qualified people he could put in those positions or nominate. He was simply stating that, due to underrepresentation, he would select a person of color and/or a woman from among those highly qualified people. Businesses with affirmative action programs to address underrepresentation have been doing this for years.
doc03
(37,252 posts)that voted for Trump or not at all, I would be attacked. It's always shoot the messenger.
Solomon
(12,500 posts)Keepthesoulalive
(952 posts)Or should all of our heroes be white and the bad guys be ethnic , you know drug dealers or maybe women should be nurses . The helping professions. Black faces in white spaces. Why should anyone give a damn?
Fix The Stupid
(972 posts)But good luck with logic here.
haele
(13,783 posts)Basically, the "White Man Savior" attitude.
So, from what I've observed over 60- off years in the English speaking world, socially the "Social Value/Meritorious" system generally goes (from the top):
- Wealthy Christian "White" Hetero Males
- Other Wealthy Males (wealth comes first, then religion, then sexual orientation, then race)
- Wealthy Christian White Females (sexual orientation doesn't really matter)
- Professional White Males
- Wealthy and Professional White Females (wealth, then religion)
- Professional Males, other than White
- Working Males other than White (and Military, both male and female)
- Professional Females, non-white and Working White Females
- White Children
- Poor unemployed or minimally employed men (white or non-white)and Working Non-White Females.
- Poor unemployed/minimally employed non-white females and non-white children
- Poor Felons
Males are above Females, then Whites are above non-Whites, then Christians are above non-Christians, but Wealth and if one works for a living is the overall criteria. Money can cover a lot of "sins".
Education come a distant last, basically to differentiate the "Professionals" who have a career that can make money from drones who trade their labor to survive.
Figarosmom
(3,953 posts)The part about not pushing their religion on others. They love doing that and think it's justified.
Wiz Imp
(3,099 posts)for any job. Straight White Christian males have had practically all the power in this country since the very beginning. And many straight white Christian males think it always should remain that way. Things like DEI jeopardize that power.
Libloom
(40 posts)It's not just about racismtheres a broader strategy at play. By labeling DEI initiatives as inherently racist or discriminatory, they create a pretext to gain control over various entities. For example, they can cut off funding to schools, research institutions, and other organizations receiving government money if they dont comply with their terms. This extends to private businesses too, using lawsuits or boycotts to pressure them into falling in line. Once these groups submit, even once, it becomes easier to maintain that control and enforce compliance in the future. Its a way to consolidate influence across multiple sectors. The use of DEI make this easier for them.
Bettie
(17,590 posts)are angry that anyone who isn't right wing, white, male, and an evangelical (or conservative catholic) shouldn't be hired for most jobs.
They want society to be set up for them alone...anyone who isn't one of them is a DEI hire. They seem to believe that they would be wealthy if only women and men who aren't white would just get out of their way.
I say this from knowing a lot of them, being related to a lot of them, and listening them spew their bile for years.
They think they are being held down by women and minorities. They think the billionaires want to help them.
They are amazingly stupid.
TBF
(34,970 posts)and they are still fighting the damned civil war down here in the south.
And it is a very effective wedge issue - turn a big section of poor people against another big section. They fight each other while the billionaires (vis a vie the republican party) steal the farm.
surfered
(4,516 posts)On FOX as part of their AngerTainment programming to rile the base. Hes providing solutions for things that werent a problem, then claiming he fixed it.
Gore1FL
(22,083 posts)The dog whistles are just normal whistles now.
A_Steel_Magnolia
(24 posts)(a Venn diagram would present them as overlapping circles) are losing their privilege relative to the rest of the population. People simply don't give up privilege without a fight. White christian nationalism is the umbrella they are using to reclaim their privilege. BTW, they probably don't consider that they are privileged; they simply deserve to be treated better than other people
S/V Loner
(9,178 posts)to his base and he knows they need to be kept fed or they will turn on him. They feed on hate and he can't afford to let them starve.
PikaBlue
(275 posts)The alliteration was pleasing.
Initech
(103,113 posts)Think Daily Caller, Daily Wire, Infowars - all that bullshit.
mahina
(19,288 posts)IbogaProject
(3,978 posts)That is the scam accuse our side of doing what they want to do.
valleyrogue
(1,360 posts)who stupidly voted for him.
Meowmee
(6,560 posts)Ocelot II
(122,381 posts)the reason for the degree of overkill and the sheer malice involved. They could have eliminated unwanted DEI programs easily without torching the entire executive branch simply by directing the agencies to close out the DEI initiatives in their HR departments, and to reassign employees to other work. Instead, DEI is being treated like accusations of Communism during the McCarthy era when in fact it's simply a pretty innocuous employee training program that doesn't discriminate against white people in any respect; it merely points out how to avoid bias against minority/LGBTQ/people with disabilities, etc. I get their desire to be sure mediocre white men keep their advantages but intentionally causing enormous collateral damage in the process seems like a pretty bizarre political strategy. The speculation in this thread that the whole thing is performative rather than substantive is the only thing that makes any sense. It will bite them in the ass eventually, but not soon enough.
Meowmee
(6,560 posts)And implement policies or whatever goes along with everything they believe. They made no secret about what they were going to do. My question is can they be stopped at this point?
JHB
(37,543 posts)They have their view of the proper order of things, and any disruption of that is the end of the world, or at least their world, so it's evil, evil, EVIL!!!
It's not that complicated. They have the whole world ordered in their heads, and "You're not in your pigeonhole, dammit! Get back in there!"
Strelnikov_
(7,875 posts)Couldn't find anything in that would offend or upset anyone who wasn't a bigoted asshole
SocialDemocrat61
(3,361 posts)hatrack
(61,538 posts)Like "woke", "DEI" will serve the same essential function - Thing We Do Not Like (But Cannot Define), and we'll wave it around whenever necessary to rile up the morons who still support us.
Initech
(103,113 posts)Which is part of the reason why they're also going after host platforms and those pesky terms of service agreements. The sick fucks want to let it be known what they are actually thinking.
Festivito
(13,641 posts)So, if you tell people a small group of people (a minority) want something, it does not have to cost directly. It's that they and their friends can leave you needing to help them when their tragedies strike them urging you to pay until you come down to their impoverished level.
DEI is for groups of these possibly impoverished. My fear of becoming poor by brushing with these people turns to anger. My unwillingness to accept it is my socio-economic status fall that I fear, leads me to blame other attributes, e.g. color, deformity, difference. Finally, my anger, becomes fake based on the attributes I picked because I don't want to even mention that I might be that close to poor that I would even be concerned about becoming poor.
As to your question, why DEI. Being different can mean not getting a job, thus being a step away from poor. It's an easy sell.
Contrary to gays, who ended up promoting rich gays, and gays who do not spend on children seem richer. There are poor gays, however the silence of those made for envisioning the non-poor. They will still pick on gays as a minority that might lose you a job, but advances were made.
Hotler
(12,567 posts)his voters, and those voters can be your friends, family, co-worker, neighbors, etc. Stay vigilant around them and watch your six.
AllaN01Bear
(23,748 posts)Initech
(103,113 posts)And mostly coming from uneducated, privileged ignoramuses like Alex Jones, Tucker Carlson and Charlie Kirk.