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question everything

(48,797 posts)
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 05:37 PM Tuesday

The Sickest Patients Are Fleeing Private Medicare Plans--Costing Taxpayers Billions

(snip)

People in the final year of their lives left Medicare Advantage for traditional Medicare at double the rate of other enrollees from 2016 to 2022, the Journal’s analysis found. Those private-plan dropouts—300,075 during that time span—often had long hospital and nursing-home stays after they left, running up large bills that taxpayers, not their former insurers, had to pay.

They cost the federal government an average of $218 a day during that period. That is more than seven times the cost of a typical Medicare recipient, and about twice the cost of other recipients in the last year of their lives. The Journal’s analysis excluded hospice expenses, which traditional Medicare typically covers for all patients.

Medicare Advantage insurers collectively avoided $10 billion in medical costs incurred by the dropouts during that period, the analysis found. If those beneficiaries had stayed in their plans, the government would have paid the insurers about $3.5 billion in premiums, meaning the companies netted more than $6 billion in savings during that period.

(snip)

The insurers use some of the same money-saving tactics they use with their non-Medicare customers, such as requiring referrals from primary-care doctors or approvals from insurers for many services, and including only certain hospitals and doctors in their networks. In 2022, Medicare Advantage insurers denied 3.4 million requests for services, according to an analysis by the health-policy nonprofit KFF.

Traditional Medicare requires preapproval for only a small number of services, including surgeries that could be cosmetic—a type of care not covered by the program.

More.

https://www.wsj.com/health/healthcare/medicare-private-plans-insurers-389af1a0?st=rQyJRV&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

(free)

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The Sickest Patients Are Fleeing Private Medicare Plans--Costing Taxpayers Billions (Original Post) question everything Tuesday OP
THAT'S when they find out what a fucking scam it is Skittles Tuesday #1
You can warn them Hope22 Tuesday #2
"too good to be true" seems lost in the wind Skittles Tuesday #4
Are they quitting or are they intentionally being kicked out? ... aggiesal Tuesday #50
either way it's more proof what a fucking scam they are Skittles Tuesday #52
I agree, but if they were kicked out, if I was running the government ... aggiesal Tuesday #53
LOL Skittles Tuesday #54
I agree with that too. It's what I would do. n/t aggiesal Tuesday #55
My wife was on Medicare Advantage plan until the end of her life at140 Tuesday #56
of course there are always the exceptions Skittles Tuesday #57
you are right about the goal of MA at140 Tuesday #60
it is odd that they do not specify in the article Skittles Tuesday #61
The first paragraph- which I snipped to keep the allowed ones -mentioned United Healthcare question everything Tuesday #71
Humana isn't much better Skittles Tuesday #72
A friend recently received notice that her Advantage care was being cancelled. Lonestarblue 11 hrs ago #101
B-I-N-G-O, this is what I'm referring to. ... aggiesal 10 hrs ago #104
Yep. Medicare Advantage was great for my mom -- until she really needed it. W_HAMILTON Tuesday #62
I am sorry about that. She should have been able to switch during open enrollment question everything Tuesday #74
She could have switched, but wouldn't have been able to afford... W_HAMILTON Tuesday #82
When you go back to original medicare Henry203 10 hrs ago #103
Medicare "Advantage" was George W. Bush's attempt to privatize Medicare. OMGWTF Tuesday #3
it's an ONGOING EFFORT Skittles Tuesday #5
That would be because he's basically a pimp. dchill Tuesday #48
Part C started in Clinton. Silent Type Tuesday #27
Exactly! surfered Tuesday #46
Another GOP grift of the public and especially their MAGA base. Jit423 Tuesday #59
This is an important article. Thanks. spooky3 Tuesday #6
not only the "free stuff" rampartd Tuesday #11
And all the admin costs, and profit for the insurer, etc. nt spooky3 Tuesday #13
i can't even fit this into "capitalism." rampartd Tuesday #15
Seniors had better be ready to push back hard if spooky3 Tuesday #16
i am a cancer survivor rampartd Tuesday #19
Hang in there! I have a relative whose care in the last two years has spooky3 Tuesday #20
i've seen the numbers paid out by medicare and my supp. blue cross rampartd Tuesday #24
Totally agree. Nt spooky3 Tuesday #28
there is NO REASON a session of chemo should cost that much Skittles Tuesday #65
And the fact that we as a country allow it to happen. spooky3 Tuesday #79
My wife has had, and survived, cancer twice DFW Tuesday #29
Wow! I hope she is ok now. nt spooky3 Tuesday #64
Amazingly, yes, she is. DFW Yesterday #87
I'm happy for her and your family. Nt spooky3 23 hrs ago #88
Thanks. We were extremely lucky, and never forget it. DFW 22 hrs ago #89
Congratulations! Nt spooky3 20 hrs ago #90
I have advanced emphysema from a genetic condition misanthrope 14 hrs ago #97
This message was self-deleted by its author Skittles Yesterday #85
? Skittles 7 hrs ago #105
kickbacks for the people who add people to these scams Skittles Tuesday #63
Unless they are in a guarantee issue state how do they do it? Tadpole Raisin Tuesday #7
They aren't switching to another private plan; they spooky3 Tuesday #10
I know they aren't switching to another M.A. plan. That wouldn't help at all. Tadpole Raisin Tuesday #17
So your earlier post was commenting about supplemental plans? spooky3 Tuesday #18
If they were in an Advantage plan they didn't have a supplement. Tadpole Raisin Tuesday #23
If their income is low enough... littlemissmartypants Tuesday #45
True! Although when over 65 sometimes the asset test knocks you out Tadpole Raisin Tuesday #51
Already there... littlemissmartypants Tuesday #58
Sorry about that. Can the manufacturer help? They often do for expensive drugs question everything Tuesday #70
Thanks for the suggestion. There's a manufacturer discount card. ... littlemissmartypants Tuesday #83
A system that makes it normal for people to stress out over this DFW 11 hrs ago #100
Dr Ozis gonna fix it 🙃 Deuxcents Tuesday #8
there are youtube videos with the hack Oz pimping for Advantage Skittles Tuesday #9
Social Security Advantage. The Musk/Swarmy Plan Traildogbob Tuesday #12
Once you really need care.. Macrophylla Tuesday #14
I work in Neurosurgery Horse with no Name Tuesday #32
There will be no more traditional Medicare mnhtnbb Tuesday #21
no Skittles Tuesday #25
You'll be wheeled into the alley behind the hospital awaiting doom. erronis Tuesday #38
That's what I mean. mnhtnbb Tuesday #39
it will all eventually be turned over to private insurance Skittles Tuesday #40
This is exactly what I think, too XanaDUer2 18 hrs ago #93
They're already screwed by then. If you join Advantage you will likely be locked out of traditional Medicare supplements tritsofme Tuesday #22
Hubs and I would pay 800 per month on original Medicare. And I have had excellent care... Demsrule86 Tuesday #33
The concept of a plan has always been the same... Moostache Tuesday #26
Sadly, original Medicare covers only 20 days of nursing home care, after that you pay $204 or so for next 80 days. Silent Type Tuesday #30
Not all Medigap policies pay this...most folks go on Medicaid. Demsrule86 Tuesday #34
This is why we need long term insurance except they are getting so expensive question everything Tuesday #78
Unfortunately, I see no chance of nursing home coverage in next 20 years at least. Good point about those who are Silent Type Tuesday #80
This is bullshit. You can't go back to orginal Medicare after Advantage...unless you Demsrule86 Tuesday #31
You can go back to original Medicare, buy you'll pay 20% out of pocket unless you qualify for a Medigap policy, which Silent Type Tuesday #35
That is false. totodeinhere Tuesday #68
Better go read that again. 63-day window applies to the FIRST YEAR you go on MA. After that, underwriting applies Silent Type Tuesday #73
Thanks for the correction. n/t totodeinhere Tuesday #75
It's overly complicated. I don't see how anyone keeps up with it. Silent Type Tuesday #77
That is not true! Liberal In Texas Tuesday #36
If your advantage plan is canceled that may set up a special circumstance Tadpole Raisin Tuesday #66
Wall Street Journal Cirsium Tuesday #37
Switching? Jill Hanson Tuesday #41
So did I, though in some case you can IF you have a lot of money. Auggie Tuesday #42
During open enrollment as is right now question everything Tuesday #44
You can definitely go back to original/heritage Medicare. But, there is no guarantee you can get a Medigap policy, Silent Type Tuesday #76
False fact upstream..... Granny Blue Tuesday #43
I think... littlemissmartypants Tuesday #47
For 2025, Medicare Advantage plans have cut benefits and raised premiums and copays, across the board dlk Tuesday #49
Kick dalton99a Tuesday #67
I'm so damn sick of this crap soandso Tuesday #69
I thought wryter2000 Tuesday #81
You can during open enrollment see 44, above question everything Tuesday #84
no you CAN go back Skittles Yesterday #86
I don't know why everyone is so worried Zorro 20 hrs ago #91
Humana is terminating 560,000 members because they are not profitable enough dalton99a 19 hrs ago #92
This happens with for profit companies. Their fiduciary is for their shareholders who expect them question everything 18 hrs ago #94
With Dr. Oz sabbat hunter 15 hrs ago #95
I don't get it. The premium for my plan is $36/month. milestogo 15 hrs ago #96
This is how the story started question everything 12 hrs ago #98
I'm enrolled in both milestogo 12 hrs ago #99
GOP evil julmur 11 hrs ago #102

Hope22

(2,841 posts)
2. You can warn them
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 05:42 PM
Tuesday

But they pay no attention. They collect the free shoes and gym membership up front…..so crazy!

Skittles

(159,240 posts)
4. "too good to be true" seems lost in the wind
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 05:45 PM
Tuesday

I do understand how they hook people of modest means but I cannot STAND seeing those same people pimping for these scams, UGH

aggiesal

(9,465 posts)
50. Are they quitting or are they intentionally being kicked out? ...
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 09:10 PM
Tuesday

I wouldn't put it past these private insurers kicking out insurers to saving $10 billion.

Skittles

(159,240 posts)
52. either way it's more proof what a fucking scam they are
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 09:11 PM
Tuesday

and DR OZ will be doing EVERYTHING he can to push people into these scams

aggiesal

(9,465 posts)
53. I agree, but if they were kicked out, if I was running the government ...
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 09:13 PM
Tuesday

I'd go after the $10 Billion they owe and kick them out of the program.

at140

(6,131 posts)
56. My wife was on Medicare Advantage plan until the end of her life
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 09:17 PM
Tuesday

She passed away in 2023 from cancer. She was approved for every treatment her doctors prescribed.
She lived longer than expected with stage-4 cancer of lungs & brain due to amazing treatments she received.

Skittles

(159,240 posts)
57. of course there are always the exceptions
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 09:18 PM
Tuesday

but the ENTIRE GOAL of MA it to eventually GET RID OF MEDICARE

my sympathy to you for your loss

at140

(6,131 posts)
60. you are right about the goal of MA
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 09:26 PM
Tuesday

I am on the same MA plan and I have experienced no problems so far.
I am still wondering if some were forced out of the plan or left voluntarily.

Skittles

(159,240 posts)
61. it is odd that they do not specify in the article
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 09:35 PM
Tuesday


but honestly it sounds like the people themselves are ditching MA because, well, too often they suck

question everything

(48,797 posts)
71. The first paragraph- which I snipped to keep the allowed ones -mentioned United Healthcare
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 10:10 PM
Tuesday

the worst. It is listed on the stock exchange, meaning its main fiduciary is to the shareholders not to the subscribers. The compensation of the CEO is $23 million. I have never understood why is AARP pushing it.

Both our carriers are Advantage but they are not for profit and have been paying all claims.

Lonestarblue

(11,807 posts)
101. A friend recently received notice that her Advantage care was being cancelled.
Wed Nov 20, 2024, 06:06 PM
11 hrs ago

She lives in a small community and the insurer decided that it would no longer cover anyone in the area. She is now trying to sign up for original Medicare. Insurance companies are not trustworthy and they will have no requirements to cover anyone medical care under Trump.

aggiesal

(9,465 posts)
104. B-I-N-G-O, this is what I'm referring to. ...
Wed Nov 20, 2024, 07:34 PM
10 hrs ago

My theory is, it has nothing to do with an area, rather how many old people live in that area.
This is a federal program, so insurance companies should not cancel anyone unless lack of payment.
That's the way I see it.

W_HAMILTON

(8,489 posts)
62. Yep. Medicare Advantage was great for my mom -- until she really needed it.
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 09:35 PM
Tuesday

Then it was horrible. She had a stroke and it was just as bad as the stories you hear about regular people fighting their private insurance plans for necessary coverage. They booted her prematurely from her nursing home rehab, when she was in no shape to come home. I tried to see about switching to traditional Medicare the next enrollment period, but was told she would either be denied or the premiums would be exorbitant. If you sign up for traditional Medicare when you are first eligible, they apparently can't deny you this way.

My mom's last few months were spent with me being forced to provide inadequate care due to her Medicare Advantage plan skimping on coverage and then me trying to (unsuccessfully) find a way to get her back into traditional Medicare so she could get the care she needed.

DO NOT GET SUCKERED INTO MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLANS.

question everything

(48,797 posts)
74. I am sorry about that. She should have been able to switch during open enrollment
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 10:17 PM
Tuesday
https://medicareguide.com/medicare-advantage-to-original-medicare-165588

When Can I Switch to Original Medicare?
The easiest way to move from Medicare Advantage to Original Medicare is during one of two annual periods that allow anyone to leave Medicare Advantage with no questions asked. The second way to leave your Medicare Advantage plan is if you’ve had it for less than one year (that is: you’re entitled to a “trial right”).

W_HAMILTON

(8,489 posts)
82. She could have switched, but wouldn't have been able to afford...
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 10:51 PM
Tuesday

...the Medicare supplement needed to use traditional Medicare and she wouldn't have been able to afford the out-of-pocket costs with traditional Medicare without such secondary insurance.

She was basically stuck with her Medicare Advantage plan, which was all too happy to have her tossed out of the rehab center. The rehab center told me that Medicare Advantage plans are much worse than traditional Medicare when it comes to a situation where someone needs a longer stay in a rehab facility.

Henry203

(53 posts)
103. When you go back to original medicare
Wed Nov 20, 2024, 06:52 PM
10 hrs ago

And you want a supplement the insurance companies have the right to underwrite you.

OMGWTF

(4,441 posts)
3. Medicare "Advantage" was George W. Bush's attempt to privatize Medicare.
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 05:43 PM
Tuesday

It's a scandal that these private insurers are allowed to use the word "Medicare" in their name.

Skittles

(159,240 posts)
5. it's an ONGOING EFFORT
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 05:46 PM
Tuesday

now they will make MA scams THE DEFAULT for people new to Medicare, and DR. OZ pimps for MA heavily too

Jit423

(276 posts)
59. Another GOP grift of the public and especially their MAGA base.
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 09:25 PM
Tuesday

We ll have to suffer because of their adoration of all things Trump.

spooky3

(36,193 posts)
6. This is an important article. Thanks.
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 05:46 PM
Tuesday

Another example of how there is no free lunch. All those extra benefits that MA plans provide to entice people to sign up must be paid for. Looks as if they are being paid for by denial of coverage of life saving care later.

spooky3

(36,193 posts)
20. Hang in there! I have a relative whose care in the last two years has
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 06:28 PM
Tuesday

Been incredibly expensive—all covered by Medicare and his supplemental plan.

rampartd

(316 posts)
24. i've seen the numbers paid out by medicare and my supp. blue cross
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 06:38 PM
Tuesday

a session of chemo was over 14k. that is every 2 weeks. for almost 2 years.

considering the probability that environmental toxins dumped into the water/air/food contribute, i think corporate america should shut up and pay their taxes.

spooky3

(36,193 posts)
79. And the fact that we as a country allow it to happen.
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 10:33 PM
Tuesday

Many other "developed" countries have systems that provide checks on overcharging. They aren't the same in every country, and there are some problems in all systems, but they are far more effective than is ours at controlling costs while providing benefits.

T. R. Reid's book "The Healing of America" is a really good resource on this subject though it's a bit out of date now.

DFW

(56,513 posts)
29. My wife has had, and survived, cancer twice
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 06:47 PM
Tuesday

The second time was a brutal "always fatal" (99.99% of the time, anyway--she was that one in ten thousand that survived it), form that was luckily caught early. As a German citizen, living in Germany, her work insurance covered it the first time, and the German version of COBRA covered it the second time, as she had no health insurance for that period (age 60-65) between her early retirement and her German version of Medicare kicking in at age 65. Some people like to perpetuate the myth that everyone in Europe has "free" uninterrupted health insurance, which is either wrong (if you really didn't know) or a lie (if you did know). But at least there is the fact that the German "COBRA," if you can afford it (it was between €550 and €600 a month at the time, which was 8 years ago, when she was 64), really does cover everything, which, in her case, included five weeks of hospital care, a brutal operation, 84 biopsies, follow up, and 4 weeks in a cancer patient recovery spa, which is considered an integral part of cancer care in Germany.

DFW

(56,513 posts)
87. Amazingly, yes, she is.
Wed Nov 20, 2024, 04:03 AM
Yesterday

I mean, once you've had cancer, let alone twice, you're never completely free of knowing it can strike again, but it diminishes your quality of life if you let the fear consume you. Fortunately, she hasn't. Here, at age 70, six years after defeating "the Murderer," you wouldn't know what she has gone through.

DFW

(56,513 posts)
89. Thanks. We were extremely lucky, and never forget it.
Wed Nov 20, 2024, 06:53 AM
22 hrs ago

When the surgeon that operated on her to remove "the Murderer" saw her a month later, he said he frankly couldn't believe he was looking at the same patient that he operated on for almost six hours just four weeks prior. We celebrated 50 years together this past summer. At times, it has been a bumpy ride along the way, but we have beaten every scare that fate has tossed our way so far. We realize that we have been more fortunate than most, and that nothing lasts forever.

misanthrope

(8,223 posts)
97. I have advanced emphysema from a genetic condition
Wed Nov 20, 2024, 03:23 PM
14 hrs ago

I was diagnosed in my 30s. Without Medicare, I would be dead.

That said, the nationalized health care in certain nations would be even better for me because my eligibility for health care wouldn't be means tested. Because of the vagaries of my situation, I have to be either destitute or extravagantly wealthy to have health care in America. Something in between won't cut it.

Response to spooky3 (Reply #16)

Tadpole Raisin

(1,499 posts)
7. Unless they are in a guarantee issue state how do they do it?
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 05:48 PM
Tuesday

And even if they can switch, if they are sick they would probably fail underwriting.

If they move to a guarantee issue state to switch, that’s a big deal or if their M. A. Plan is cancelled they are free to get a supplement.

Anyway nobody should be surprised that for profit private M.A. plans are denying care but I always feel bad for those who have no choice/money. When you are dealing with serious health issues it is hard to deal with their BS.

Tadpole Raisin

(1,499 posts)
17. I know they aren't switching to another M.A. plan. That wouldn't help at all.
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 06:19 PM
Tuesday

So they return to standard MC A and B but without a supplement to fill in the gaps in coverage?

Wow. People must be really desperate to do that.

I’m lucky. I live in a guarantee issue state. I’m using Medicare Advantage now (which we both know is private although some people insist it is not), but I have no intention of staying on it.

In a year or 2 I’ll change back to straight MC and get a supplement. I’m not going to allow them to deny me care even if it won’t happen for several years. That’s the thing - you never know when that will happen.

spooky3

(36,193 posts)
18. So your earlier post was commenting about supplemental plans?
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 06:23 PM
Tuesday

I agree, they may have trouble getting one of those . But original Medicare doesn’t require people to undergo screening per the link I provided. Maybe some of these people are able to keep their supplemental plan after they transition to traditional Medicare.

Tadpole Raisin

(1,499 posts)
23. If they were in an Advantage plan they didn't have a supplement.
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 06:35 PM
Tuesday

If they are in a guarantee issue state where they can switch out of MC C into standard MC A and B (at specific times of the year, on their birthday or whatever their state allows) they can then get a supplement depending on how those states set it up.

If they aren’t and they leave their advantage plan then they have standard MC A and B and nothing else. Not much of an option.

Guarantee Issue states currently: Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, and New York, each with different requirements and allowances.

Tadpole Raisin

(1,499 posts)
51. True! Although when over 65 sometimes the asset test knocks you out
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 09:10 PM
Tuesday

of contention for that.

There is an also a Medicare Savings Program where the state pays for Medicare B and copays (but it isn’t insurance) and some states that have that don’t require an asset test so that is sometimes an option if the income is in range.

I still have half a brain but negotiating this maze every year is insane. I also fear for those who may lose assistance if the new administration really does try to cut programs to pay for their tax cut. Pretty sure that would make us both crazy (or maybe we’re already there!).

littlemissmartypants

(25,483 posts)
58. Already there...
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 09:21 PM
Tuesday

I'm trying to do my open enrollment. One medication that I depend on to function is now OOP @ more than $1900.00/mo. I was paying for it @ btwn 500 to 600/month depending on the month already when it was covered. Now, I don't know what I'm going to do. Not one plan covers it this year. I have a call in to my doctor and have not heard back. I'm going to wait one more day and call back. I'm not hopeful.



littlemissmartypants

(25,483 posts)
83. Thanks for the suggestion. There's a manufacturer discount card. ...
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 11:02 PM
Tuesday

But you have to be completely uninsured to use it. I don't fit that criteria. I'm hoping for help from my doctor for possible replacement suggestions. But she's so busy I don't know if I'll get any.

It was covered under a special exception and that took us five tries to finally get authorization for it and it was still expensive. My understanding is that it's the only medication that does what it does. But I don't know what comes close.

I'm not hopeful. As a matter of fact, I'm starting to get sad. Which is a place that I really don't want to go.

Skittles

(159,240 posts)
9. there are youtube videos with the hack Oz pimping for Advantage
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 05:53 PM
Tuesday

that's another reason he was picked

Macrophylla

(107 posts)
14. Once you really need care..
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 06:05 PM
Tuesday

These plans fall way short. Break a hip...insurance decides. Have a stroke and now you have a weak side, can't swallow and got a new feeding tube....insurance decides. Ultimately most all the seriously ill switch to the traditional plan...than if they exhaust that, end up on Medicaid.

Those medicare B insurance stories are real and witnessed by me this month.

Horse with no Name

(34,051 posts)
32. I work in Neurosurgery
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 07:14 PM
Tuesday

They like to deny care there as well. I tell everyone close to me not to fall into it because you don’t know what you don’t have until you need it

mnhtnbb

(32,057 posts)
21. There will be no more traditional Medicare
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 06:29 PM
Tuesday

Seniors will have to select a private Medicare Advantage plan. Once everyone is switched over, the insurance companies running the plans will start denying more and more treatments. If you have money, you'll be able to get care. No money? Too bad.

erronis

(16,825 posts)
38. You'll be wheeled into the alley behind the hospital awaiting doom.
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 07:31 PM
Tuesday

I suspect the usual crowd will prey on these souls before death. The clergy, the insurance types, etc.

mnhtnbb

(32,057 posts)
39. That's what I mean.
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 07:33 PM
Tuesday

The question is whether there will be any Social Security benefits. If there are, the premiums for MA plans may still be deducted from your SS. If no Social Security, then there will be nothing but private insurance plans, without being called 'Medicare Advantage'.

Skittles

(159,240 posts)
40. it will all eventually be turned over to private insurance
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 07:40 PM
Tuesday

republicans do no give a FUCK if *ANYONE* has healthcare

they know who their donors are

tritsofme

(18,504 posts)
22. They're already screwed by then. If you join Advantage you will likely be locked out of traditional Medicare supplements
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 06:34 PM
Tuesday

for life.

If you join at age 65 or retirement, they cannot discriminate based on pre-existing conditions, after that timeframe they can and will, and the best Medicare supplement plans will likely be unavailable when they would be the most beneficial.

If you join traditional Medicare at that point, you’re stuck paying all or most of the 20%.

Demsrule86

(71,021 posts)
33. Hubs and I would pay 800 per month on original Medicare. And I have had excellent care...
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 07:17 PM
Tuesday

I spent 56 days in hospital and have four operations and 4 cardioversions. I also get back $100.00 from Part B.

Silent Type

(6,652 posts)
30. Sadly, original Medicare covers only 20 days of nursing home care, after that you pay $204 or so for next 80 days.
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 07:09 PM
Tuesday

After 100 days, Medicare is done. Medigap will pick up that $204 if you have a Medigap policy, but after 100 days they are done too, unless you purchased expensive nursing home insurance.

https://www.medicare.gov/coverage/skilled-nursing-facility-care


And, nursing homes and rehab facilities aren't covered if docs don't think you will improve. Even under traditional Medicare, Hospitals and Nursing Homes will kick you out when they believe a Medicare audit would deny the care after the fact, which happens frequently if you've worked in a hospital or been hospitalized.

Denials are probably more under MA for most people, but many people cannot afford a Medigap policy and Part D plan. It's a trade off. And, we are likely stuck with it.

Heck, even ACA relies on private health plans.

question everything

(48,797 posts)
78. This is why we need long term insurance except they are getting so expensive
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 10:29 PM
Tuesday

We need to write our representatives to change the tax code so that premium payments should be used to adjust income in a similar way that contributions to IRA and 401K are. I did some years back, never even got an acknowledgment. Will have to do it again

Silent Type

(6,652 posts)
80. Unfortunately, I see no chance of nursing home coverage in next 20 years at least. Good point about those who are
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 10:34 PM
Tuesday

paying for coverage getting some credit.

I can't afford it. You have to buy young to be affordable.

Demsrule86

(71,021 posts)
31. This is bullshit. You can't go back to orginal Medicare after Advantage...unless you
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 07:12 PM
Tuesday

have no pre-existing conditions.

Silent Type

(6,652 posts)
35. You can go back to original Medicare, buy you'll pay 20% out of pocket unless you qualify for a Medigap policy, which
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 07:22 PM
Tuesday

is unlikely. There are 4 or so states that reqiure guaranteed issue on medigap, but the policies are more expensive in that state (though probably worth it).

totodeinhere

(13,301 posts)
68. That is false.
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 09:50 PM
Tuesday

Last edited Tue Nov 19, 2024, 10:21 PM - Edit history (1)

"If you switch from a Medicare Advantage plan back to Original Medicare, you can qualify for a Medigap policy; you typically have a 63-day window after leaving your Medicare Advantage plan to enroll in a Medigap policy without medical underwriting."

https://tinyurl.com/294apapu edit - I have been corrected. I guess I need to stop always believing my AI bot.

Silent Type

(6,652 posts)
73. Better go read that again. 63-day window applies to the FIRST YEAR you go on MA. After that, underwriting applies
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 10:15 PM
Tuesday

with a few exceptions.

You may have a guaranteed [Medigap] issue right if:

--You, through no fault of your own, lost a group health plan (GHP) that covered your Medicare cost-sharing (meaning it paid secondary to Medicare)

--You joined a Medicare Advantage Plan when you first became eligible for Medicare and disenrolled within 12 months

--Or, your previous Medigap policy, Medicare Advantage Plan, or PACE program ends its coverage or commits fraud

Liberal In Texas

(14,489 posts)
36. That is not true!
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 07:23 PM
Tuesday

There are no rules preventing someone with preexisting conditions from enrolling in Medicare after Advantage.

You might be thinking about gap coverage, which is private insurance. It can be hard to buy after being on Advantage.

Be aware that under federal law, Medigap policy insurers can refuse to cover your prior medical conditions for the first six months. A prior or pre-existing condition is a condition or illness you were diagnosed with or were treated for before new health care coverage began.

Tadpole Raisin

(1,499 posts)
66. If your advantage plan is canceled that may set up a special circumstance
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 09:40 PM
Tuesday

Where you can get back on regular Medicare.

- if you are in a guarantee issue state they allow you to switch back to regular Medicare at specific times (Conn, ME, MA, and NY). Supplement prices in these states are higher because you are allowed to leave your advantage plan (you can switch every year) and the prices are community based - the same for 65 or 85. So a plan N could easily be $200/month. In other states the supplement is much less because if you don’t switch from advantage back to a supplement in the first 12 months you are out of luck.

- if you move out of the area maybe!

Supplements can be tricky and since different states have different rules, the preexisting conditions may not be covered for 6 months or you may fail the underwriting questions.

Criminies, a friggin PhD is needed to make sense of all these rules.

question everything

(48,797 posts)
44. During open enrollment as is right now
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 08:06 PM
Tuesday

When Can I Switch to Original Medicare?
The easiest way to move from Medicare Advantage to Original Medicare is during one of two annual periods that allow anyone to leave Medicare Advantage with no questions asked. The second way to leave your Medicare Advantage plan is if you’ve had it for less than one year (that is: you’re entitled to a “trial right”).

Medicare Annual Election (“Medicare Open Enrollment”) and Medicare Advantage Open Enrollment Periods
You can break up with your Medicare Advantage plan from October 15 through December 7, and again from January 1 through March 31, in favor of Original Medicare.

Medicare Annual Election Period (AEP)
Also known as Medicare open enrollment, AEP lasts from October 15 through December 7. If you choose to change from one Medicare Advantage plan to a different one, or if you want to disenroll from your Medicare Advantage plan during this time completely, the cancellation will take effect on January 1.

https://medicareguide.com/medicare-advantage-to-original-medicare-165588

Silent Type

(6,652 posts)
76. You can definitely go back to original/heritage Medicare. But, there is no guarantee you can get a Medigap policy,
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 10:22 PM
Tuesday

in fact virtually no one that sick would pass underwriting. Note: There are 4 states where medigap is guaranteed issue. NY is one. And there a few other guaranteed issue like if you drop out of MA in the first year.

Granny Blue

(11 posts)
43. False fact upstream.....
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 07:55 PM
Tuesday

“Free” shoes are not an MA benefit. They are provided under Regular Medicare to some diabetes patients. However, the payment rate is so low that many simply can’t access them and those who can have to fight for appropriate shoes. I know one person who has diabetes and foot deformities from birth who waited 4 (Four) months for a right shoe because her feet were different sizes. She was homebound and unable to walk during that time, which is very dangerous for a diabetic. She ended up accepting a right shoe too large because she was afraid of going back on insulin! She is now at risk of amputation. The whole thing is a Potemkin Village, looks great from a distance, but up close, the rot is evident. I could go on, but will simply recall what we said when fighting for the ACA. “The only people satisfied with their health care are the healthy.”

littlemissmartypants

(25,483 posts)
47. I think...
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 08:22 PM
Tuesday

The reference may have been to some so-called "Silver Sneakers" fitness club memberships that come with some plans.

dlk

(12,355 posts)
49. For 2025, Medicare Advantage plans have cut benefits and raised premiums and copays, across the board
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 08:39 PM
Tuesday

Some plan premiums are now higher than premiums Medicare Supplement plans, and all of the Advantage plans have networks, either as HMO's or PPO's, unlike a Medicare Supplement plan, where a retiree can choose any provider that accepts Medicare, across the US, and there are no referral or prior authorization requirements.

soandso

(1,155 posts)
69. I'm so damn sick of this crap
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 09:53 PM
Tuesday

about how much medical costs are when we get old. So fucking what?!!! That's how life works and it should be expected and paid for with regular Medicare, period. If that means money has to be cut somewhere else, then do it.

question everything

(48,797 posts)
84. You can during open enrollment see 44, above
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 11:14 PM
Tuesday

At least seems easy to me but some comments, above show that it is not that simple

dalton99a

(84,248 posts)
92. Humana is terminating 560,000 members because they are not profitable enough
Wed Nov 20, 2024, 10:35 AM
19 hrs ago
https://www.newsweek.com/more-500000-americans-set-lose-their-medicare-advantage-plans-1952164

More Than 500,000 Americans Set to Lose Their Medicare Advantage Plans
Published Sep 11, 2024 at 1:02 PM EDT

More than 500,000 Americans are scheduled to lose their Medicare Advantage plans now that major insurer Humana is leaving 13 markets across the country.

The company's Chief Financial Officer Susan Diamond made the announcement during a Wells Fargo Healthcare Conference this month, saying roughly 560,000 members would need to find a new plan.

That impacts roughly 10 percent of its Medicare Advantage participants.

The specific markets Humana is exiting from are those that are not likely to be profitable, Diamond said during the conference.

...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The terminated members will receive a guaranteed-issue rights letter to let them purchase a supplement without underwriting (they don't have to answer any health questions)


question everything

(48,797 posts)
94. This happens with for profit companies. Their fiduciary is for their shareholders who expect them
Wed Nov 20, 2024, 10:55 AM
18 hrs ago

to cut costs.

sabbat hunter

(6,893 posts)
95. With Dr. Oz
Wed Nov 20, 2024, 02:25 PM
15 hrs ago

in charge of medicare and medicaid, traditional medicare will probably go bye bye, and everyone will be forced on to "medicare advantage" if medicare is even still around. My thought is that they will try to eliminate medicare, medicaid, and SS before the orange motherfucker's term is up.

question everything

(48,797 posts)
98. This is how the story started
Wed Nov 20, 2024, 05:25 PM
12 hrs ago

Patricia Greene had spent a month recovering from a devastating stroke when her Medicare Advantage insurer, a unit of UnitedHealth Group, decided to stop paying for her nursing home.

The 85-year-old was so weak and fragile, her son said, that she couldn’t even get herself out of bed. Her family felt she wasn’t ready to leave the facility in New York City’s Queens borough.

So she dropped her UnitedHealth coverage and enrolled in the traditional version of Medicare run directly by the federal government.

That decision saved UnitedHealth tens of thousands of dollars in the months that followed, billing records show, and shifted onto taxpayers the cost of later hospital and nursing home care in what turned out to be the final months of her life.

=====

Not a matter of paying premiums a matter of life and death, really.

milestogo

(17,786 posts)
99. I'm enrolled in both
Wed Nov 20, 2024, 05:27 PM
12 hrs ago

but I have to say its confusing as hell, and I have no plans to change anything. If you have a late payment you are totally screwed.

julmur

(131 posts)
102. GOP evil
Wed Nov 20, 2024, 06:35 PM
11 hrs ago

Reading all these comments is truly frightening, health care coverage should never be such a complicated cluster. The US has some of the best health care available in the world, but the absolute worst means of actually getting cared for because of our greed driven, for profit health care system

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