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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Sickest Patients Are Fleeing Private Medicare Plans--Costing Taxpayers Billions
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People in the final year of their lives left Medicare Advantage for traditional Medicare at double the rate of other enrollees from 2016 to 2022, the Journals analysis found. Those private-plan dropouts300,075 during that time spanoften had long hospital and nursing-home stays after they left, running up large bills that taxpayers, not their former insurers, had to pay.
They cost the federal government an average of $218 a day during that period. That is more than seven times the cost of a typical Medicare recipient, and about twice the cost of other recipients in the last year of their lives. The Journals analysis excluded hospice expenses, which traditional Medicare typically covers for all patients.
Medicare Advantage insurers collectively avoided $10 billion in medical costs incurred by the dropouts during that period, the analysis found. If those beneficiaries had stayed in their plans, the government would have paid the insurers about $3.5 billion in premiums, meaning the companies netted more than $6 billion in savings during that period.
(snip)
The insurers use some of the same money-saving tactics they use with their non-Medicare customers, such as requiring referrals from primary-care doctors or approvals from insurers for many services, and including only certain hospitals and doctors in their networks. In 2022, Medicare Advantage insurers denied 3.4 million requests for services, according to an analysis by the health-policy nonprofit KFF.
Traditional Medicare requires preapproval for only a small number of services, including surgeries that could be cosmetica type of care not covered by the program.
More.
https://www.wsj.com/health/healthcare/medicare-private-plans-insurers-389af1a0?st=rQyJRV&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
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Skittles
(159,240 posts)yup
Hope22
(2,841 posts)But they pay no attention. They collect the free shoes and gym membership up front ..so crazy!
Skittles
(159,240 posts)I do understand how they hook people of modest means but I cannot STAND seeing those same people pimping for these scams, UGH
aggiesal
(9,465 posts)I wouldn't put it past these private insurers kicking out insurers to saving $10 billion.
Skittles
(159,240 posts)and DR OZ will be doing EVERYTHING he can to push people into these scams
aggiesal
(9,465 posts)I'd go after the $10 Billion they owe and kick them out of the program.
no one will do anything about it, that's why they keep getting worse and worse
aggiesal
(9,465 posts)at140
(6,131 posts)She passed away in 2023 from cancer. She was approved for every treatment her doctors prescribed.
She lived longer than expected with stage-4 cancer of lungs & brain due to amazing treatments she received.
Skittles
(159,240 posts)but the ENTIRE GOAL of MA it to eventually GET RID OF MEDICARE
my sympathy to you for your loss
at140
(6,131 posts)I am on the same MA plan and I have experienced no problems so far.
I am still wondering if some were forced out of the plan or left voluntarily.
Skittles
(159,240 posts)but honestly it sounds like the people themselves are ditching MA because, well, too often they suck
question everything
(48,797 posts)the worst. It is listed on the stock exchange, meaning its main fiduciary is to the shareholders not to the subscribers. The compensation of the CEO is $23 million. I have never understood why is AARP pushing it.
Both our carriers are Advantage but they are not for profit and have been paying all claims.
Skittles
(159,240 posts)Lonestarblue
(11,807 posts)She lives in a small community and the insurer decided that it would no longer cover anyone in the area. She is now trying to sign up for original Medicare. Insurance companies are not trustworthy and they will have no requirements to cover anyone medical care under Trump.
aggiesal
(9,465 posts)My theory is, it has nothing to do with an area, rather how many old people live in that area.
This is a federal program, so insurance companies should not cancel anyone unless lack of payment.
That's the way I see it.
W_HAMILTON
(8,489 posts)Then it was horrible. She had a stroke and it was just as bad as the stories you hear about regular people fighting their private insurance plans for necessary coverage. They booted her prematurely from her nursing home rehab, when she was in no shape to come home. I tried to see about switching to traditional Medicare the next enrollment period, but was told she would either be denied or the premiums would be exorbitant. If you sign up for traditional Medicare when you are first eligible, they apparently can't deny you this way.
My mom's last few months were spent with me being forced to provide inadequate care due to her Medicare Advantage plan skimping on coverage and then me trying to (unsuccessfully) find a way to get her back into traditional Medicare so she could get the care she needed.
DO NOT GET SUCKERED INTO MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PLANS.
question everything
(48,797 posts)When Can I Switch to Original Medicare?
The easiest way to move from Medicare Advantage to Original Medicare is during one of two annual periods that allow anyone to leave Medicare Advantage with no questions asked. The second way to leave your Medicare Advantage plan is if youve had it for less than one year (that is: youre entitled to a trial right).
W_HAMILTON
(8,489 posts)...the Medicare supplement needed to use traditional Medicare and she wouldn't have been able to afford the out-of-pocket costs with traditional Medicare without such secondary insurance.
She was basically stuck with her Medicare Advantage plan, which was all too happy to have her tossed out of the rehab center. The rehab center told me that Medicare Advantage plans are much worse than traditional Medicare when it comes to a situation where someone needs a longer stay in a rehab facility.
Henry203
(53 posts)And you want a supplement the insurance companies have the right to underwrite you.
OMGWTF
(4,441 posts)It's a scandal that these private insurers are allowed to use the word "Medicare" in their name.
Skittles
(159,240 posts)now they will make MA scams THE DEFAULT for people new to Medicare, and DR. OZ pimps for MA heavily too
dchill
(40,467 posts)Again I say, "Thanks, Oprah."
Silent Type
(6,652 posts)Jit423
(276 posts)We ll have to suffer because of their adoration of all things Trump.
spooky3
(36,193 posts)Another example of how there is no free lunch. All those extra benefits that MA plans provide to entice people to sign up must be paid for. Looks as if they are being paid for by denial of coverage of life saving care later.
rampartd
(316 posts)but that heavy advertising bill must be paid as well.
spooky3
(36,193 posts)rampartd
(316 posts)all they are doing is skimming money
spooky3
(36,193 posts)The GOP tries to end Medicare.
rampartd
(316 posts)without medicare i would be bankrupt, homeless, or more likely dead.
spooky3
(36,193 posts)Been incredibly expensiveall covered by Medicare and his supplemental plan.
rampartd
(316 posts)a session of chemo was over 14k. that is every 2 weeks. for almost 2 years.
considering the probability that environmental toxins dumped into the water/air/food contribute, i think corporate america should shut up and pay their taxes.
spooky3
(36,193 posts)Skittles
(159,240 posts)THAT IS PURE CORPORATE GREED
spooky3
(36,193 posts)Many other "developed" countries have systems that provide checks on overcharging. They aren't the same in every country, and there are some problems in all systems, but they are far more effective than is ours at controlling costs while providing benefits.
T. R. Reid's book "The Healing of America" is a really good resource on this subject though it's a bit out of date now.
DFW
(56,513 posts)The second time was a brutal "always fatal" (99.99% of the time, anyway--she was that one in ten thousand that survived it), form that was luckily caught early. As a German citizen, living in Germany, her work insurance covered it the first time, and the German version of COBRA covered it the second time, as she had no health insurance for that period (age 60-65) between her early retirement and her German version of Medicare kicking in at age 65. Some people like to perpetuate the myth that everyone in Europe has "free" uninterrupted health insurance, which is either wrong (if you really didn't know) or a lie (if you did know). But at least there is the fact that the German "COBRA," if you can afford it (it was between 550 and 600 a month at the time, which was 8 years ago, when she was 64), really does cover everything, which, in her case, included five weeks of hospital care, a brutal operation, 84 biopsies, follow up, and 4 weeks in a cancer patient recovery spa, which is considered an integral part of cancer care in Germany.
spooky3
(36,193 posts)DFW
(56,513 posts)I mean, once you've had cancer, let alone twice, you're never completely free of knowing it can strike again, but it diminishes your quality of life if you let the fear consume you. Fortunately, she hasn't. Here, at age 70, six years after defeating "the Murderer," you wouldn't know what she has gone through.
spooky3
(36,193 posts)DFW
(56,513 posts)When the surgeon that operated on her to remove "the Murderer" saw her a month later, he said he frankly couldn't believe he was looking at the same patient that he operated on for almost six hours just four weeks prior. We celebrated 50 years together this past summer. At times, it has been a bumpy ride along the way, but we have beaten every scare that fate has tossed our way so far. We realize that we have been more fortunate than most, and that nothing lasts forever.
spooky3
(36,193 posts)misanthrope
(8,223 posts)I was diagnosed in my 30s. Without Medicare, I would be dead.
That said, the nationalized health care in certain nations would be even better for me because my eligibility for health care wouldn't be means tested. Because of the vagaries of my situation, I have to be either destitute or extravagantly wealthy to have health care in America. Something in between won't cut it.
Response to spooky3 (Reply #16)
Skittles This message was self-deleted by its author.
isn't that part of capitalism?
Skittles
(159,240 posts)UGH
Tadpole Raisin
(1,499 posts)And even if they can switch, if they are sick they would probably fail underwriting.
If they move to a guarantee issue state to switch, thats a big deal or if their M. A. Plan is cancelled they are free to get a supplement.
Anyway nobody should be surprised that for profit private M.A. plans are denying care but I always feel bad for those who have no choice/money. When you are dealing with serious health issues it is hard to deal with their BS.
spooky3
(36,193 posts)Are switching to original Medicare, a govt plan.
https://www.medicare.gov/basics/get-started-with-medicare/get-more-coverage/joining-a-plan#:~:text=If%20you%20joined%20a%20Medicare,Medicare%20Part%20A%20%26%20Part%20B.
Tadpole Raisin
(1,499 posts)So they return to standard MC A and B but without a supplement to fill in the gaps in coverage?
Wow. People must be really desperate to do that.
Im lucky. I live in a guarantee issue state. Im using Medicare Advantage now (which we both know is private although some people insist it is not), but I have no intention of staying on it.
In a year or 2 Ill change back to straight MC and get a supplement. Im not going to allow them to deny me care even if it wont happen for several years. Thats the thing - you never know when that will happen.
spooky3
(36,193 posts)I agree, they may have trouble getting one of those . But original Medicare doesnt require people to undergo screening per the link I provided. Maybe some of these people are able to keep their supplemental plan after they transition to traditional Medicare.
Tadpole Raisin
(1,499 posts)If they are in a guarantee issue state where they can switch out of MC C into standard MC A and B (at specific times of the year, on their birthday or whatever their state allows) they can then get a supplement depending on how those states set it up.
If they arent and they leave their advantage plan then they have standard MC A and B and nothing else. Not much of an option.
Guarantee Issue states currently: Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, and New York, each with different requirements and allowances.
littlemissmartypants
(25,483 posts)Medicaid kicks in.
Tadpole Raisin
(1,499 posts)of contention for that.
There is an also a Medicare Savings Program where the state pays for Medicare B and copays (but it isnt insurance) and some states that have that dont require an asset test so that is sometimes an option if the income is in range.
I still have half a brain but negotiating this maze every year is insane. I also fear for those who may lose assistance if the new administration really does try to cut programs to pay for their tax cut. Pretty sure that would make us both crazy (or maybe were already there!).
littlemissmartypants
(25,483 posts)I'm trying to do my open enrollment. One medication that I depend on to function is now OOP @ more than $1900.00/mo. I was paying for it @ btwn 500 to 600/month depending on the month already when it was covered. Now, I don't know what I'm going to do. Not one plan covers it this year. I have a call in to my doctor and have not heard back. I'm going to wait one more day and call back. I'm not hopeful.
question everything
(48,797 posts)littlemissmartypants
(25,483 posts)But you have to be completely uninsured to use it. I don't fit that criteria. I'm hoping for help from my doctor for possible replacement suggestions. But she's so busy I don't know if I'll get any.
It was covered under a special exception and that took us five tries to finally get authorization for it and it was still expensive. My understanding is that it's the only medication that does what it does. But I don't know what comes close.
I'm not hopeful. As a matter of fact, I'm starting to get sad. Which is a place that I really don't want to go.
DFW
(56,513 posts)That is one cruel system, indeed.
Deuxcents
(19,694 posts)Skittles
(159,240 posts)that's another reason he was picked
Traildogbob
(9,955 posts)Macrophylla
(107 posts)These plans fall way short. Break a hip...insurance decides. Have a stroke and now you have a weak side, can't swallow and got a new feeding tube....insurance decides. Ultimately most all the seriously ill switch to the traditional plan...than if they exhaust that, end up on Medicaid.
Those medicare B insurance stories are real and witnessed by me this month.
Horse with no Name
(34,051 posts)They like to deny care there as well. I tell everyone close to me not to fall into it because you dont know what you dont have until you need it
mnhtnbb
(32,057 posts)Seniors will have to select a private Medicare Advantage plan. Once everyone is switched over, the insurance companies running the plans will start denying more and more treatments. If you have money, you'll be able to get care. No money? Too bad.
once everyone is on MA, MEDICARE WILL CEASE TO EXIST
THAT WAS THE PLAN ALL ALONG
erronis
(16,825 posts)I suspect the usual crowd will prey on these souls before death. The clergy, the insurance types, etc.
mnhtnbb
(32,057 posts)The question is whether there will be any Social Security benefits. If there are, the premiums for MA plans may still be deducted from your SS. If no Social Security, then there will be nothing but private insurance plans, without being called 'Medicare Advantage'.
Skittles
(159,240 posts)republicans do no give a FUCK if *ANYONE* has healthcare
they know who their donors are
XanaDUer2
(13,829 posts)tritsofme
(18,504 posts)for life.
If you join at age 65 or retirement, they cannot discriminate based on pre-existing conditions, after that timeframe they can and will, and the best Medicare supplement plans will likely be unavailable when they would be the most beneficial.
If you join traditional Medicare at that point, youre stuck paying all or most of the 20%.
Demsrule86
(71,021 posts)I spent 56 days in hospital and have four operations and 4 cardioversions. I also get back $100.00 from Part B.
Moostache
(10,161 posts)1) Get Sick
2) Die Faster.
Nothing else is considered.
Silent Type
(6,652 posts)After 100 days, Medicare is done. Medigap will pick up that $204 if you have a Medigap policy, but after 100 days they are done too, unless you purchased expensive nursing home insurance.
https://www.medicare.gov/coverage/skilled-nursing-facility-care
And, nursing homes and rehab facilities aren't covered if docs don't think you will improve. Even under traditional Medicare, Hospitals and Nursing Homes will kick you out when they believe a Medicare audit would deny the care after the fact, which happens frequently if you've worked in a hospital or been hospitalized.
Denials are probably more under MA for most people, but many people cannot afford a Medigap policy and Part D plan. It's a trade off. And, we are likely stuck with it.
Heck, even ACA relies on private health plans.
Demsrule86
(71,021 posts)question everything
(48,797 posts)We need to write our representatives to change the tax code so that premium payments should be used to adjust income in a similar way that contributions to IRA and 401K are. I did some years back, never even got an acknowledgment. Will have to do it again
Silent Type
(6,652 posts)paying for coverage getting some credit.
I can't afford it. You have to buy young to be affordable.
Demsrule86
(71,021 posts)have no pre-existing conditions.
Silent Type
(6,652 posts)is unlikely. There are 4 or so states that reqiure guaranteed issue on medigap, but the policies are more expensive in that state (though probably worth it).
totodeinhere
(13,301 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 19, 2024, 10:21 PM - Edit history (1)
"If you switch from a Medicare Advantage plan back to Original Medicare, you can qualify for a Medigap policy; you typically have a 63-day window after leaving your Medicare Advantage plan to enroll in a Medigap policy without medical underwriting."
https://tinyurl.com/294apapu edit - I have been corrected. I guess I need to stop always believing my AI bot.
Silent Type
(6,652 posts)with a few exceptions.
You may have a guaranteed [Medigap] issue right if:
--You, through no fault of your own, lost a group health plan (GHP) that covered your Medicare cost-sharing (meaning it paid secondary to Medicare)
--You joined a Medicare Advantage Plan when you first became eligible for Medicare and disenrolled within 12 months
--Or, your previous Medigap policy, Medicare Advantage Plan, or PACE program ends its coverage or commits fraud
totodeinhere
(13,301 posts)Silent Type
(6,652 posts)Liberal In Texas
(14,489 posts)There are no rules preventing someone with preexisting conditions from enrolling in Medicare after Advantage.
You might be thinking about gap coverage, which is private insurance. It can be hard to buy after being on Advantage.
Be aware that under federal law, Medigap policy insurers can refuse to cover your prior medical conditions for the first six months. A prior or pre-existing condition is a condition or illness you were diagnosed with or were treated for before new health care coverage began.
Tadpole Raisin
(1,499 posts)Where you can get back on regular Medicare.
- if you are in a guarantee issue state they allow you to switch back to regular Medicare at specific times (Conn, ME, MA, and NY). Supplement prices in these states are higher because you are allowed to leave your advantage plan (you can switch every year) and the prices are community based - the same for 65 or 85. So a plan N could easily be $200/month. In other states the supplement is much less because if you dont switch from advantage back to a supplement in the first 12 months you are out of luck.
- if you move out of the area maybe!
Supplements can be tricky and since different states have different rules, the preexisting conditions may not be covered for 6 months or you may fail the underwriting questions.
Criminies, a friggin PhD is needed to make sense of all these rules.
Cirsium
(796 posts)Healthcare doesn't "cost taxpayers." The taxpayers and the patients are the same people.
Jill Hanson
(2 posts)I thought once someone signed up for Advantage they could never go to the heritage Medicare plan?
Auggie
(31,798 posts)question everything
(48,797 posts)When Can I Switch to Original Medicare?
The easiest way to move from Medicare Advantage to Original Medicare is during one of two annual periods that allow anyone to leave Medicare Advantage with no questions asked. The second way to leave your Medicare Advantage plan is if youve had it for less than one year (that is: youre entitled to a trial right).
Medicare Annual Election (Medicare Open Enrollment) and Medicare Advantage Open Enrollment Periods
You can break up with your Medicare Advantage plan from October 15 through December 7, and again from January 1 through March 31, in favor of Original Medicare.
Medicare Annual Election Period (AEP)
Also known as Medicare open enrollment, AEP lasts from October 15 through December 7. If you choose to change from one Medicare Advantage plan to a different one, or if you want to disenroll from your Medicare Advantage plan during this time completely, the cancellation will take effect on January 1.
https://medicareguide.com/medicare-advantage-to-original-medicare-165588
Silent Type
(6,652 posts)in fact virtually no one that sick would pass underwriting. Note: There are 4 states where medigap is guaranteed issue. NY is one. And there a few other guaranteed issue like if you drop out of MA in the first year.
Granny Blue
(11 posts)Free shoes are not an MA benefit. They are provided under Regular Medicare to some diabetes patients. However, the payment rate is so low that many simply cant access them and those who can have to fight for appropriate shoes. I know one person who has diabetes and foot deformities from birth who waited 4 (Four) months for a right shoe because her feet were different sizes. She was homebound and unable to walk during that time, which is very dangerous for a diabetic. She ended up accepting a right shoe too large because she was afraid of going back on insulin! She is now at risk of amputation. The whole thing is a Potemkin Village, looks great from a distance, but up close, the rot is evident. I could go on, but will simply recall what we said when fighting for the ACA. The only people satisfied with their health care are the healthy.
littlemissmartypants
(25,483 posts)The reference may have been to some so-called "Silver Sneakers" fitness club memberships that come with some plans.
dlk
(12,355 posts)Some plan premiums are now higher than premiums Medicare Supplement plans, and all of the Advantage plans have networks, either as HMO's or PPO's, unlike a Medicare Supplement plan, where a retiree can choose any provider that accepts Medicare, across the US, and there are no referral or prior authorization requirements.
dalton99a
(84,248 posts)soandso
(1,155 posts)about how much medical costs are when we get old. So fucking what?!!! That's how life works and it should be expected and paid for with regular Medicare, period. If that means money has to be cut somewhere else, then do it.
wryter2000
(47,431 posts)Once you sign up for Advantage, you couldnt go back to Medicare. Am I wrong?
question everything
(48,797 posts)At least seems easy to me but some comments, above show that it is not that simple
Skittles
(159,240 posts)and if you're in perfect health MAYBE you can get a supplemental
Zorro
(16,284 posts)TFA has a concept of a plan, after all.
dalton99a
(84,248 posts)More Than 500,000 Americans Set to Lose Their Medicare Advantage Plans
Published Sep 11, 2024 at 1:02 PM EDT
More than 500,000 Americans are scheduled to lose their Medicare Advantage plans now that major insurer Humana is leaving 13 markets across the country.
The company's Chief Financial Officer Susan Diamond made the announcement during a Wells Fargo Healthcare Conference this month, saying roughly 560,000 members would need to find a new plan.
That impacts roughly 10 percent of its Medicare Advantage participants.
The specific markets Humana is exiting from are those that are not likely to be profitable, Diamond said during the conference.
...
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The terminated members will receive a guaranteed-issue rights letter to let them purchase a supplement without underwriting (they don't have to answer any health questions)
question everything
(48,797 posts)to cut costs.
sabbat hunter
(6,893 posts)in charge of medicare and medicaid, traditional medicare will probably go bye bye, and everyone will be forced on to "medicare advantage" if medicare is even still around. My thought is that they will try to eliminate medicare, medicaid, and SS before the orange motherfucker's term is up.
milestogo
(17,786 posts)Why would someone stop paying it?
question everything
(48,797 posts)Patricia Greene had spent a month recovering from a devastating stroke when her Medicare Advantage insurer, a unit of UnitedHealth Group, decided to stop paying for her nursing home.
The 85-year-old was so weak and fragile, her son said, that she couldnt even get herself out of bed. Her family felt she wasnt ready to leave the facility in New York Citys Queens borough.
So she dropped her UnitedHealth coverage and enrolled in the traditional version of Medicare run directly by the federal government.
That decision saved UnitedHealth tens of thousands of dollars in the months that followed, billing records show, and shifted onto taxpayers the cost of later hospital and nursing home care in what turned out to be the final months of her life.
=====
Not a matter of paying premiums a matter of life and death, really.
milestogo
(17,786 posts)but I have to say its confusing as hell, and I have no plans to change anything. If you have a late payment you are totally screwed.
julmur
(131 posts)Reading all these comments is truly frightening, health care coverage should never be such a complicated cluster. The US has some of the best health care available in the world, but the absolute worst means of actually getting cared for because of our greed driven, for profit health care system