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(16,261 posts)is powerless to behave otherwise than he has is so ridiculous.
"He just followed DOJ policy" -- WHO DO YOU THINK MAKES DOJ POLICY?
Who hires and fires and directs the people who author the documents that dictate that policy? Santa Claus? The Tooth Fairy?
John Shaft
(747 posts)Last edited Wed Nov 20, 2024, 04:01 AM - Edit history (1)
or the mob.
edhopper
(34,773 posts)when he appointed Weiss.
Skittles
(159,240 posts)he can do no wrong
IzzaNuDay
(601 posts)Initially I thought he was being meticulous. But shite, nearly 4 years has passed by and nothing came from it? I hope he goes into oblivion after January 20
Trueblue1968
(18,112 posts)Think. Again.
(17,901 posts)...they don't need him anymore.
He will be surprised to find out what the rightwing does with people they have no use for.
Scrivener7
(52,724 posts)Think. Again.
(17,901 posts)...and that means nothing to rightwingers, he will be thrown out with the trash.
Rebl2
(14,676 posts)I thought in the beginning, but after two years in, I realized he was going to do nothing to trump. F . him.
Skittles
(159,240 posts)you give me hope that others may get it too
RJ_MacReady
(435 posts)Is one of the weakest and most useless AGs in my lifetime. He should have been fired within 6 months due to his weak approach to Jan 6th.
Response to onecaliberal (Original post)
RandiFan1290 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Emile
(29,777 posts)Now we have an American traitor who had stolen top secret documents and tried to overthrow our government as president elect. That's what I call WEAK ON CRIME.
CrispyQ
(38,238 posts)yardwork
(64,318 posts)The fear and deference shown by the Justice Dept to Trump in the face of literally treasonous behavior is mind boggling.
Meowmee
(5,467 posts)But there is nothing funny about what has happened.
Tommy Carcetti
(43,545 posts)On the contrary, I think hes a good, decent upstanding person who unfortunately is a little bit too cautious for his own good.
Same thing can be said about President Bidens NSA guy Jake Sullivan.
Garlands temperament would have been much better suited for Supreme Court Justice, but alas, we all know how that story ended.
There are many more people to direct your anger at before Merrick Garland. Many people.
Intractable
(541 posts)Whether deserved or not, Garland is disliked by many people on both sides.
Tommy Carcetti
(43,545 posts)In Bizarro (and bizarre) Trumpland, Garland is considered a super-partisan ideologue who is Bidens own personal agent sent to persecute Trumpists.
These are the people who consider violent January 6th participants political prisoners.
lostnfound
(16,631 posts)A man with a tougher stance would have had trump in jail 2 years ago.
TheKentuckian
(26,181 posts)possibly stomach.
Little to nothing more.
John Shaft
(747 posts)of 40+ plus years of Democrats placating Republicans.
Corporate masters remain pleased, billionaires are still rich, country more divided than ever before. The poor are always and remain vulnerable.
Placating R helped to get us fascism
BigMin28
(1,458 posts)He got played badly by repukes.
Walleye
(35,655 posts)Since then is when weve gotten all the crackpots and ideologues. They dont have to pick a moderate justice anymore because of that. And its not Harry Reids fault, Im sorry.
Scrivener7
(52,724 posts)His inactivity was so pronounced that I can only conclude it was done very consciously, and he never intended to prosecute the crimes that have crippled our Democracy.
Intractable
(541 posts)The DOJ is like a warm blanket that covers and obscures many sins of political America.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219737548
bigtree
(90,141 posts)...who can't even write herself out of her own disproven bullshit, much less talk about anyone else.
In this post promoted by this DUer above, she complains about the "Biden Placeholder Presidency."
Really? This is what is being used against the Biden DOJ here?
Intractable
(541 posts)It's too bad, because it offers plausible explanations as to why Garland seemingly took so long, and still failed to prosecute Trump.
Your love of Garland is well known. May it give him the strength to endure what Trump has in store for him. For sure, he is on Trump's enemies list. Maybe you too, eh?
bigtree
(90,141 posts)...it's her thing to bash Democrats.
But you bring this trash of hers here like someone is supposed to genuflect to some anon poster who can't keep our party out of her troll mouth, all fine and dandy because she criticizes Garland.
That's the long and short of this Garland scapegoating. It originated in a WaPo columnist's incomplete, and factually wrong article, and spread as a meme because of 'time passed'.
Not a word about the perps appealing every bit of evidence collected since 2021 and run through successive courts up to the maga majority on the Supreme Court.
Not a word about the Trump-appointed judges delaying those hearings in concert with the Trump team's appeals.
Not a word about how long the grand jury took to bring forth a recommendation for charges. Not a word about that process at all.
Just this dirt-dumb haranguing of Garland like he's the one who determines what's being charged by the grand jury recommendation, and not the SC who ultimately approves or rejects that decision.
All of this bashing him for not bringing charges earlier like there's something critics actually know, but won't tell us, about the state of evidence they have no way of knowing about outside of court filings or perps talking.
No one on this thread has posted even a shred of evidence they KNOW DOJ had access to and permission by appeals judges to use in their prosecutions.
Not ONE shred of proof of this criticisms other than 'time passed.' But it's certainly popular to second-guess two dozen of the nation's top career prosecutors by claiming it was Garland's job to bring charges, instead of a grand jury, or to claim he was responsible as an agency administrator for anything other than approving the product of the people he hired to work for him.
Most of these criticisms are perpetuated on pure fiction. Not including proof is what keeps this Garland bashing aloft on a cloud of outrage and scapegoating.
It's as if critics can't bring themselves to talk about ANY of the perps' obstruction of those DOJ efforts, or the republican and Trump-appointed judges who did the vast majority of the delaying until the election.
All of the Garland bashing actually serves as a barrier to criticizing people whose actual aim was delaying the DOJ efforts. It functions like an actual opposition to DOJ's investigation, mostly indistinguishable from any other Garland bashing.
But this man who is being accused of being a republican, a federalist, or some kind of defender of republicans or Trump actually prosecuted over 1200 white supremacist Trumper rioters who are gifted with this derision of Garland for 'just focusing on 'foot soldiers' for arresting and convicting maga rioters on charges up to the crime of Sedition.
That's actually DOWNPLAYED in favor of this bullshit that he protecting some Trump interest. No matter to critics that the Jan.6 congressional committee that so many slobbered over focused almost exclusively on the rioters.
Moreover, in the last filing Jack Smith made to Judge Chutkan, he outlined the responsibility he had found Trump bore for the riot, and indicated he had included testimony from actual rioters and riot leaders to make that case in his indictment.
We already knew Garland had obtained cooperation from at least a dozen PBs and Oath Keepers, but all critics would bother to say about it was this derision that they had just arrested 'small fry, ' as if that isn't the way most cases obtain evidence up the chain.
Reasoning from Garland critics hasn't followed actual law, procedure, or anything even remotely associated with the actual prosecutions other than repeating nonsense posted on the internet, and sharing people's internet fantasy prosecution game takes.
Garland late, Garland bad, isn't an argument. It's a tell for people who know absolutely nothing of substance about the investigations and prosecutions, and can't tell you any of the details of any of it, even after all of this time passed.
Intractable
(541 posts)>> Garland critics hasn't followed actual law
The article says he did follow the law.
Honestly, I don't have the patience for you. I'm sorry. May your love for Garland set you free, or whatever.
bigtree
(90,141 posts)..and the trolling of Biden's DOJ.
I read that.
You didn't read what I wrote, though, I'm guessing.
Par.
Let's not pretend that person doesn't have a history of trolling Democrats. I don't care what she wrote, but this is bullshit:
The Biden Placeholder Presidency was designed to exist between two terms of Trump, Mafia Grover Cleveland style. The threat of Trump returning to office to complete his autocratic agenda is severe. But that he is able to do it that the US is the only country in history to allow a coup to go unpunished and a seditionist to run for president again is due to Garland, the DOJ, and their accomplices in Congress.
...that is unadulterated horseshit, and she links to other screeds against Democrats she's written in the past with vile accusations and characterizations of our party and legislators.
But you wave this around like someone here is supposed to like it when Dems are being attacked by internet trolls like her, all because she bashed your nemesis, Garland.
Wtf.
Intractable
(541 posts)So then, you understand at a deep level why I lost patience with reading you. I don't care, either.
:
Oops! You just changed your post. You clearly wrote, "I don't care what she wrote." and then you changed it. Enough of you!
bigtree
(90,141 posts)...and you think I should care about the drivel she wrote?
WTF?
Intractable
(541 posts)I think you have an obsession-to-a-fault with preserving Garland's reputation, and possibly that of the larger Democratic party establishment.
It has been evident from your posts since I joined a few months ago. You seem to have knee-jerk reactions to people speaking against Garland.
Whereas we should all support our Democratic figures, you are unwilling to look at that which has failed us.
Our principles failed us. Our procedures failed us. Our bureaucracy failed us. The established means have handed us great defeat before a highly villainous man.
Our individual players, Harris, Walz, Schumer, even Garland, all played by the rules, even admirably.
But, if you are unwilling to critically look at the DOJ, you will not be part of solving any problems. The criminals are now in charge -- those that were almost prosecuted by Garland's DOJ.
bigtree
(90,141 posts)...you have zero proof of ANYTHING you've said here.
And have accomplished nothing but furthering a known troll of Democrats., all in the interest of bashing Garland.
The obsession is apparently yours.
What weird here is how these criticisms can't stand up to rebuke or disagreement. I'd guess it's because they come with no proof other than the time passed.
No discussion of Trump judges or obstruction by the perps. Just this bashing of the people who brought forward TWO historic, multi-felony indictments against a former president, despite the steep odds, both political and legal obstacles.
But it's expected that people follow and knuckle under to the dirt-dumb reasoning that passes for anaylsis or opinion about the prosecutions before us.
Anyone who's read me knows that I bring facts to the discussion that are routinely ignored or dismissed with phony attacks on my credibility or intent.
Bring some facts to the discussion, not just links from Democratic party opponents with an axe to grind against Pres. Biden and his administration.
Intractable
(541 posts)Your huge posts with so many facts completely lose the forest in the trees every time.
The facts you like to cite are minutiae. They read like the phone book. Everything so ordered. The numbers may be correct, but the math doesn't produce the intended results, does it?
There's a huge meta-difference between facts and truth.
The Truth is our system of justice failed us, and Garland was the leader of that system.
>> No discussion of Trump judges or obstruction by the perps.
That's part of the failed system, isn't it?
I stand by my assertion that you are psychologically obsessed with Garland's personal reputation, as evidenced by your many knee-jerk reactions and the way you just repeat yourself.
I would advise you to stop taking the name of Garland so personally. At no point in any of my posts did I bash Garland, yes? YES!!!
You are easily triggered by the mere mention of his name, and this completely obscures anything useful in what you might say.
You say I'm obsessed. That's real silly. My concern is to win the next elections and then build a better system. Garland will obviously not have any part in that.
bigtree
(90,141 posts)...and look to want attention paid to the imaginings in your head that you project against a substantive investigation and prosecution packed full of the things most of Garland critics claim don't exist, or ever happened.
It's not a serious discussion, so I'm left with little but to talk past you for anyone interested with the actual investigation, and not the internet fantasy prosecution game.
Your interests are evidently are at odds with the facts in this case, as your conclusions are void of them.
More curious is this expectation that the DOJ investigating and prosecuting the AG's boss's political rival in this election, for election interference in the last one, should have been perversely and contradictorily advantaged by a converse political focus by Biden's DOJ on winning the election.
Facts about the actual investigation and prosecution aside, that political focus by DOJ you proscribe would be a perversion of justice, and a contradiction; an anathema to everything people claim they oppose about what Trump did along with his DOJ attempting to prosecute his political rivals when he was in office.
All the more perverse a criticism of Garland when nothing he could do, charging or convicting Trump, legally disqualified him from running or assuming office, even from jail.
Moreover, any honest look at the prospects for completing his efforts before the election would take into account the two to three years, minimum, it would take to complete appeals AFTER CONVICTION through a maze of often republican or Trump-appointed judges willing to delay the hearings as long as they are able.
It's facts like these, evidently of no interest to you, that make a mockery of all of this derision of Garland without proof of anything but 'time passed' and the thoughts inside of one's head.
...and, btw, I take all of this on because I can - because I'm mad able, not because of some love for some pol or cop. But I can see how dissembling that is to arguments accustomed to getting a page full of hurrahs everytime so much as a sentence of fact-free and infactual derision about Garland is written.
Lol, hurrah, fwiw.
Intractable
(541 posts)Your love for Garland can never be requited.
bigtree
(90,141 posts)...and I responded to it.
That's my thing. That's what I do, even in the face of people insisting that their own opinion shouldn't be broached by any disagreement.
If it's in my interest, I read and respond. It's not that hard for me.
Your equating of my presentation of these facts in dispute of your conjecture as, 'love' for the AG, is a curious thing to take comfort in. All I read in that is more derision.
That's a tell (not an argument), that you actually have no substantive points to make in defense of either your complaint, or against my rebuttal. Not hard to discern in the time it takes to read such a post.
Intractable
(541 posts)How you MUST respond to anything you perceive as criticism of him!
So, you read my post (yeah, sure) but didn't understand. You are so triggered, you actually think I was bashing Garland in my posts.
Who can take such a fan boy seriously?
bigtree
(90,141 posts)...it's just you bashing me now, all because I disagree with you, and have the temerity to qualify my disagreements with facts.
Impressive.
Intractable
(541 posts)You seem so invested in the establishment that you would just do it all again, no changes.
And we'll lose the elections, over and over.
bigtree
(90,141 posts)...and diverted from that with a contradictory garble of blame.
You said your concern was the election, but you posit that Garland or DOJ is supposed to sort that out, instead of voters.
This thread you're arguing all of this in, and the internet post you responded with, are all derision and zero relevant facts. They dance around the fact that Trump is already a convicted criminal, both on tax fraud and election fraud, as well as a adjudication for what the judge described as him 'raping' a woman years back, and that it was always a longshot that he'd stand trial before we voted.
Garland and Smith ran out of time because a majority of voters let that happen. Simple and clear. You don't need to be a Garland-lover, or a Garland-hater to see that.
You called Garland a 'symptom' of something you apparently see as wrong with the system, but you're not taking any responsibility for that derision of yours. Or that you posted an anti-Biden, anti-Democratic party screed that contains everything I'm arguing against in my posts.
You actually pointed to Kenzior's ranting a second time, so you got my response as if the offensive, nonsense screed you linked to represented your own view. What response did you imagine you'd get?
YOU posted it, and then taunted me to 'read it'.
You then claimed above that 'established means have handed us great defeat,' as if they were responsible for voters putting Trump back into a position where he can end his prosecutions.
I saw where you said he followed the law 'admirably,' but it's not a fair representation of what just happened. DOJ did their job to their utmost, and there's no evidence that they faltered or dithered, despite the bull spread by Carol Leonning and repreated by teevee lawyers like Weissmann and Tribe ad naseum like they had some knowledge of the investigation outside of their own echo chamber.
That meme is dirt dumbness and deserves rebuke, if, as you say, you really want to get to the bottom of what happened.
DOJ acted and charged trump and the courts delayed the trials, eliminating the most evidenced of the indictments. Then a majority of voters participating elected to make all of that effort moot.
You don't need to do the silly and infactual deriding of the AG to figure that out. But, I guess some folks just want what they want.
What do we call them? I don't know, and don't care, because the facts speak for themselves, especially the ones routinely ignored by Garland critics, including you above with all of the derision couched in contradictions and faint praise.
This isn't hard. Voters stopped the prosecutions, which weren't likely to be over by the time we voted, even if the internet fantasy prosecution was real and true, and Garland followed them into court with the scant evidence he had, most of it tied up in appeals courts, often for a year or more befire he could use it in a courtroom or even before a grand jury, which most critics don't realize make charging decisions for DOJ, before Garland, or before even the SC makes the determination to accept and put that before the AG to approve.
This innuendo attack that this thread represents, is an invitation to these summary judgments of what went wrong. And it comes wrapped on this nonsense about winning the election, which is a perversion of justice, especially considering that we want to convict Trump of election interference, not imitate him and have the DOJ trying to win the election for us.
The ONLY question I have is why voters didn't care enough to show and vote against an already convicted felon, rapist, and tax fraud? Some 18m less than last election.
That's not the 'establishment' to blame. Not by a longshot. That wasn't Garland's job, it was voters'.
Intractable
(541 posts)bigtree
(90,141 posts)...par.
Intractable
(541 posts)bigtree
(90,141 posts)...darn.
I was going to wear my old shirt with the 'V' for Vendetta on it.
Intractable
(541 posts)bigtree
(90,141 posts)...then you claim I'm 'embarassed'.
There's no one here who has any purchase over anyone here on that emotion. It's imaginary for you to project that onto what I wrote.
Maybe find a better use of your time.
Intractable
(541 posts)How can anyone take what you have to say about Garland or facts seriously when you invite such ridicule?
bigtree
(90,141 posts)...and you're drafting off of my responses to your own derisions.
So the cool kids DO exist! I KNEW it!
Hey kids! Watch me do the Wah Watusi!
Response to bigtree (Reply #76)
Post removed
Intractable
(541 posts)I mean, it's just been so inspiring whenever I heard it.
Please just one more time, for posterity's sake.
bigtree
(90,141 posts)...from where I'm sitting this morning, I can't hear a thing.
Just this person baiting me with silliness about someone somewhere having a laugh.
Have at it. Whatever helps you get through the day.
...on a side note, someone needs to do a study about the warped perceptions people have about the influence of their blogging, and the myriad ways people distort the import or impact of these forums to suit their own imaginations.
Ponietz
(3,293 posts)Yikes!
Scrivener7
(52,724 posts)mechanism that keeps so many loyal to trump.
They can see that he's an abject failure. But they staked so much of their identities into supporting him - often by denigrating and claiming superiority to those who have been proven right - that they can't admit they squandered so much integrity on absolutely nothing.
They'll never admit it.
bigtree
(90,141 posts)...that you don't understand?
Or is it the fact that NO charges OR convictions prevents ANYONE from running for president or being elected and serving, even from jail. No law or statute prevents any of that, so what the hell is DOJ supposed to be responsible for here?
VOTERS ended the prosecutions by allowing Trump into office, not DOJ who had zero means of preventing that political outcome - already charging him with TWO multi-felony indictments.
Winning elections is OUR job, not DOJ's.
Emile
(29,777 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 19, 2024, 10:38 AM - Edit history (1)
Kaleva
(38,157 posts)So people upset with Biden not taking action about Garland decided having Trump as president would be fine?
polichick
(37,616 posts)Kaleva
(38,157 posts)Kaleva
(38,157 posts)It's irrelevant if we love him or hate him. He appears to not be going anywhere until the new administration takes over
Response to Kaleva (Reply #28)
Post removed
gab13by13
(25,221 posts)The prosecution of Hunter Biden, he even kept the investigation going into the Russian hoax Burisma/China nonsense.
Had to make Weiss a special prosecutor so that he could take Hunter to trial in California for a crime that is rarely prosecuted.
Those who use the excuse, well Biden appointed him, Biden was furious at Garland after he released the lying Hur report.
polichick
(37,616 posts)Which he could still do, if he had the guts.
Ponietz
(3,293 posts)Castatrophic miscalculations made Schlump look invincible.
gab13by13
(25,221 posts)Ponietz
(3,293 posts)I do know that the Democratic Party cannot survive without the rule of law.
onecaliberal
(35,787 posts)Rebl2
(14,676 posts)times have thought he should have made Harris attorney general and a different woman as vice president.
Intractable
(541 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 19, 2024, 11:50 AM - Edit history (1)
And I thought, "Who would be AG? Garland? Oh yeah, he'll do nicely."
Would things be different with someone else as AG? Who can say? We'll never know.
onecaliberal
(35,787 posts)Of course it would be different.
republianmushroom
(17,612 posts)thank you, Merrick the Meek
enough said
Autumn
(46,280 posts)his name is mentioned.
Skittles
(159,240 posts)that is good
Autumn
(46,280 posts)We got a lot of shit about it too.
Skittles
(159,240 posts)Donald Fucking Trump DOES NOT BELIEVE IN AMERICA
Autumn
(46,280 posts)the media , those who didn't step up to make sure he couldn't run and the orange pus sack.
Skittles
(159,240 posts)they did the same thing to Hillary
BannonsLiver
(17,967 posts)Why do you say that, Bannons Liver? Because theres no other explanation for someone to be so devoted to someone so milquetoast and uninspiring and shall we say, less than competent.
bob4460
(249 posts)I put him in the same category as rat fucker Mitch McConnell,my super slimy senior senator.