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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThat Spoonamore guy who wrote the "Duty to Warn" letter is going to be on Thom Hartmann in about 10 minutes.
Even Thom said at the start of his show today that he was skeptical and had reservations about Spoonamore's allegations, so yes, this could be just a big ol' conspiracy theory. Still, I want to see what he has to say.
Think. Again.
(17,985 posts)...they seem reasonable with all things considered, but I am very afraid we are just going to walk away in premature defeat again, just like we did in 2000 and 2004.
And if we do just give up again, I really can't see the younger generation taking any of us seriously ever again, and that doesn't bode well for us in the next few decades.
muriel_volestrangler
(102,483 posts)No one on DU has been able to explain where they come from, or why they are incompatible with the published votes. So why can't you really doubt his allegations?
Think. Again.
(17,985 posts)...the facts around how these hacks were done, and the many indications that they were done, is what convinces me that the relatively minor trouble of doing recounts is very much worth it.
muriel_volestrangler
(102,483 posts)I've seen that he's suggested ways hacks could happen, but not that they actually had. I've seen DUers gone on for ages about the numbers. What are these "many indications"?
Think. Again.
(17,985 posts)...the only way to know if a cashier shortchanged you is to recount the change they gave you.
If we don't verify the first-count results, we are complicit in any cheating that may have occurred, and the only way to verify those first-count results, is to recount the votes using a trustworthy method and not the same method (digital tabulators) that is being questioned by so many cybersecurity experts.
I understand why the rightwingers don't want the results verified, but I don't understand why true Dems wouldn't want to be sure the astonishing results are accurate.
tritsofme
(18,530 posts)There is no real evidence it is required, just baseless conspiracy theories.
These recounts cost money, lots. Unlike Trump, she has no desire to bilk her supporters out of millions of dollars solely for her own vanity.
Think. Again.
(17,985 posts)Harris has not made any public statements on this issue.
tritsofme
(18,530 posts)I dont think shes spoken much about chemtrails either.
Think. Again.
(17,985 posts)tritsofme
(18,530 posts)Its easy to understand why.
Think. Again.
(17,985 posts)tritsofme
(18,530 posts)Yes yes, Im sure the real reason Harris has not addressed some goofy internet conspiracy theory is because she is waiting for just the right moment to embrace it. Totally checks out.
Think. Again.
(17,985 posts)tritsofme
(18,530 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(102,483 posts)Wow. I had no idea that rumours on DU should have national consequences.
Were you advocating doing a recount before the election, when it was Trump saying the system was rigged?
If Free Republic was demanding a recount without having shown that any hacks had taken place, would you be supporting them?
Think. Again.
(17,985 posts)Thank you for your input.
muriel_volestrangler
(102,483 posts)I said "I hadn't seen any facts about how hacks were done on DU. I've seen that he's suggested ways hacks could happen, but not that they actually had. I've seen DUers gone on for ages about the numbers." and you replied " yes, that's exactly why recounts must be done". So, please explain why a lack of facts on DU is a reason for a recount.
I asked you "What are these "many indications"?" and you haven't tried to back up your assertion. So, again, what are these "many indications"?
Did you advocate for a mass recount in 2020? 2012? 2008? If not, why do you think those counts were secure, but not in 2024?
Yes, just like the Democratic party, I'm resistant to demanding a recount without any evidence. Maybe I'll remind you of that in the future.
Think. Again.
(17,985 posts)...will give you the info you are looking for.
Fast forward to 2:15 for the Spoonamore segment.
https://m.
muriel_volestrangler
(102,483 posts)He says "maybe Musk had information on who was a likely Trump voter, and maybe he was able to see in real time who had already voted, and maybe he had already hacked the voting system in many states, and so he was able to insert a vote for Trump for people who hadn't actually voted". But no, no facts or evidence - or a suggestion on how the widespread hack took place without anyone noticing. Then he started into the numbers which you say don't matter, and I say he hasn't provided his sources for (and which don't match with reality, in the case of North Carolina, where he claimed the discrepancy was largest).
I think he's a kook who is out for publicity. The interview certainly didn't provide any reason to listen to him.
asm128
(230 posts)Not worth bothering.
kerry-is-my-prez
(9,197 posts)and comparing them to the results. Will report it here when I have the numbers. I encourage other wonks around here to do the same. These days, you have to do your own research and journalists would be too timid to report it.
TheKentuckian
(26,231 posts)He presents NO FACTS.
He is pulling numbers seemingly out of thin air and using them to then justify spitballing at possible reasons why the pulled out of the ass numbers are what they supposedly are.
The whole loop is only self supported and self perpetuating based on the currently available information.
It fails the very first logic check, the numbers that linchpin the whole idea cannot add up.
That is if one even bothers to pay any mind to someone who won't show his work in the first place.
That should not be handwaived .
Think. Again.
(17,985 posts)...is the plain and simple fact that many, many digital experts (and even amatuer hackers), including but not limited to Spoonamore, have repeatedly proven and shown us step-by-step how many ways hi-jacking electronic vote results can be done, and yet, we continue to refuse to rigorously verify those results, time and again.
The number estimates of what was done don't matter in the least, the plain fact that it can be done at all is all we should be alarmed about.
2naSalit
(92,705 posts)A link.
Think. Again.
(17,985 posts)Thom's youtube channel doesn't seem to have it yet.
CoopersDad
(2,876 posts)..
You'll need to fast forward past the first two hours to where only one hour remains and then it's starts with Spoonamore.
Think. Again.
(17,985 posts)ConcernedCitizen1776
(19 posts)Steven Spoonamore on The Thom Hartmann Program Live (11/18/2024) - 02:16:30 - 02:28:45 -
The Steven Spoonamore interview starts at approx. 02:16:30 to 02:28:45. [link:https://www.youtube.com/live/5s4iCxtf_Js
https://www.youtube.com/@thomhartmann/videos - https://www.thomhartmann.com/
Data Scientist's Shocking Call for Election Recount Raises Scary Questions! w/ Stephen Spoonamore
[ link: https://wwwDOTyoutubeDOTcom/watch?v=RJR5uQpweko ]
Stephen Spoonamore - Duty to Warn Letter - to VP Harris - Re: Election 2024 - Nov 15, 2024 - https://substack.com/home/post/p-151721941
https://freespeechforpeople.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/letter-to-vp-harris-111324.pdf
November 15, 2024
Honorable VP Kamala Harris
The White House
Office of the Vice President
1600 Pennsylvania Ave
Washington DC 20500
Dear Madam Vice President.
This is my second Duty to Warn Letter regarding hacking of the 2024 Presidential Election. The first letter on November 7 was directed to Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Officials. Both warnings are made per DNI Clappers 2015 directive to all agencies and contractors associated with intelligence and financial agency technologies to warn of suspicions of hacking.
Professionally I have worked as the CEO or CTO at seven high technology firms including two which specialized in hacking and counter-hacking operations. My clients have included numerous governments DoD, DHS, Dept. of State, F100 Financials and F500 Industrials.
I am a lifelong Republican who has long placed service and participatory democracy over party. In government, I have twice been invited to SoCom to give lectures on electronic warfare and techniques to find terrorist money laundering and gave a keynote speech of the National Counterintel Summit on this same topic. I served as an after-action reviewer of communications and data failures on 9/11 under the direction of Jim Woolsey and FDNY Commissioner Scopetta, and later co-wrote multiple hacking risk analysis of Smart Grid technologies for the Obama administration.
You should reverse your concession, call for both a full investigation of criminal activity and demand hand recounts in all seven swing states.
In my professional view there are multiple and extremely clear indications the Presidential vote was willfully compromised.
I wholly agree with the public letter of Duncan Buell, et. al. of Nov. 13th stating they believe there is a possibility of hacking and calling for hand-recounts.
https://freespeechforpeople.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/letter-to-vp-harris-111324.pdf
This letters clear call to action is commendable, but its cautious tone may belie the severity of what I believe has happened. In my view it is a near certainty the results have been changed at a scale which reversed the US Presidential Election. They imply there is a chance a hand-recount will show you won more votes. I am stating a hand recount will most likely show you did win. Both letters call on you to act.
In my view, a capable and skilled series of exploits, electronic tools and hacks were used to change the Presidential vote in all seven swing states. These activities have reversed the outcomes in at least Arizona, Michigan, North Carolina, and Wisconsin. I will lay out the basics of the attack, starting with unusual elements within the results. I will then outline two processes which could have been followed to insert these false results into the system. Finally I will outline how I would recommend investigating.
Unusual elements within the results.
The results of the attack are improbable in the extreme and well tailored to the sole benefit of your opponent.
Approximately 600,000 votes are for Donald Trump but with no down ballot choices. These are either inserted bullet ballots for the Presidential race or manipulated data fields. They are surgically added to totals in limited jurisdictions and within only the seven swing States. This historically unprecedented set of numbers found in the 2024 swing states is absent in every other state. In AZ, MI, NC and WI the effect of these drop-off votes reverses the voters' will and even more improbably always pushes the winning margin beyond the mandatory recount numbers. It is a result too perfect for belief. It is a bespoke and programmed outcome. In other states including PA and NV, removing these strange and bespoke added votes, it appears Donald Trump may have won the cast votes but within a margin which would force recounts. The inserted votes raise his totals, to avoid any scrutiny during mandatory recount results which would have slowed his claim on the Presidency. In GA and FL the same pattern exists with unclear impact on the results.
This attack is not technically difficult. It is modest in scale. It would require:
Modest and common computer programming skills.
Access to 10-100 tabulators or to the handful of facilities programming them in advance.
A credible database of voter IDs of non-voters around which to create false ballots.
Perhaps as few as 1, but more likely 3-5 human program managers.
Access to eBollBook Data during the election to determine who had not voted.
(Possibly) Human access to some tabulators during counting.
If I was asked to lead this hack, I would expect to have a core team of 6-10 people, and operating costs under $10M with a timeline of 3-12 months.
The tell: A historically absurd number of Trump-only bullet ballots or undervote ballots.
There are always a handful of voters who cast a vote in one race which they care about, and do not make other selections on the ballot. These are called bullet ballots. In Presidential Races since 1980, these bullet ballots rarely account for more than 1% of the total votes including in Mr. Trumps winning 2016 election and losing 2020 election, and when they do it warrants further investigation. In 2024 in the 43 non-swing states, bullet ballots make up a nominal >1%. In the seven swing states the numbers are so high to be unbelievable, unprecedented and demanding of further investigation. Here is analysis from totals as of late Nov. 12th
Here are the unprecedented results of drop-offs in the two western swing states:
AZ - 123K+ 7.2%+ of Trumps total vote. Enough to reverse the outcome.
NV - 43K+ 5.5%+ of Trumps total vote. Enough to exceed recount threshold.
It is my belief these two states have illegally added votes.
For comparison, examine Trumps 2024 results in three states which border AZ and NV. They have equally passionate Trump supporters, but have the normal levels of drop off or bullet ballots.
ID
LaMouffette
(2,269 posts)through his website's "Contact Me" feature and describe what Spoonamoor is saying and ask him, if he believes action is warranted, to get the word to Kamala. My senator is Jon Tester, a person of uncommon courage, in my opinion. If there is something to this, he will do something about it, even if he is, very unfortunately, losing his Senate seat to Trump humper extraordinaire Tim Sheehy.
Anyone else who thinks Spoonamoor's allegations at least deserve some investigations might do the same and contact their (Democratic) senators and (Democratic) representatives.
As Thom pointed out, questioning election results after Trump's Big Lie is radioactive. Being able to legitimately question results is yet another thing Trump wants to steal from us.
orleans
(34,965 posts)onenote
(44,636 posts)There is no way Spoonamare can know how many bullet ballots were cast -- that information is not available from any of the states he cites. Nor is there any way he could calculate it from the information that is available.
Indeed, the information that is available resoundingly contradicts his claim. How are there 350,000 "bullet ballots" for Trump in North Carolina -- that is, ballots on which no votes are cast in any of the other elections, when the difference between the total number of ballots cast in the presidential race and the total number cast in the governor's race is far far less that 350,000.
And I just checked Arizona. Again, the difference between the total number of votes cast in the presidential race in those states is only minimally higher than the total number of ballots cast in the elections for US Senator -- around 1.2 percent. That's basically the same % as the difference in presidential race ballots and senate race ballots cast in Arizona in 2020. It's actually less than the difference in the ballots cast in the presidential and senate races in Virginia this year -- 1.3%.
ElementaryPenguin
(7,847 posts)I'm thinking Spoonamare has more expertise than most DU posters possess.
Secondly, where is the downside to exploring this? Criticism from Trump and MAGA followers? That's non-stop anyway - and after the Big Lie they certainly have no credibility on the subject of voting irregularities.
The upside could only save this country - not to mention this planet.
onenote
(44,636 posts)And he has not offered any explanation of where his numbers come from and how they square with what is actually been reported.
I didn't blindly accept the unsubstantiated claims made by the Trumpers after the 2020 election. And I'm not going to blindly accept what on its face are unsubstantiated claims offered by Spoonamore now.
Think. Again.
(17,985 posts)...until after state audits ate complete to request a recount, and I know that N.C. at least is running late on completing their audits.
ElementaryPenguin
(7,847 posts)Forward his warning letter to your Senators and representatives!
Think. Again.
(17,985 posts)onenote
(44,636 posts)Did he explain how he came up with there being 350,000 votes cast only in the presidential race in North Carolina -- and, apparently only for Trump -- when the difference between the total number of ballots cast in the presidential race and the total number of ballots cast in the Governor's race is far far less than 350,000?
How credible can he be if he has no answer for those questions?
EarlG
(22,540 posts)He appears to be a lifelong peddler of evidence-free election conspiracy theories.
Rhiannon12866
(222,214 posts)https://www.democraticunderground.com/132249547