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nuxvomica

(12,877 posts)
Mon Nov 18, 2024, 07:23 AM Monday

How I think Trump's actions may be defeated in court

I'm not a lawyer but it seems to me there might be a strategy for defeating any of Trump's actions in court based on Section 3 of the 14th Amendment which holds that sworn officers of the government cannot hold office if they engaged in an insurrection. Let's say, for example, you are a Haitian immigrant and Trump has declared by executive order that you be deported. Can't you claim in court that Trump's presidency is unconstitutional because it violates Section 3 so any of his actions is in violation of the Constitution? Is not the constitutionality of his office just as suspect, even more so, than Jack Smith's, which was the basis for Judge Cannon's dismissal of the documents case?

Cannon's dismissal is, of course, on shaky ground because it is based on Justice Thomas's lone and faulty interpretation of the Appointments Clause in the Constitution. It is currently under appeal but what's interesting about it is it is based on the constitutionality of the prosecutor's office, not the actual facts or law of the charges themselves. There is a stronger argument that the courts can invalidate any of Trump's actions for the same lack of office constitutionality.

In the Colorado case, Trump v Anderson, a (scandal-ridden) majority of the court held that Section 3 could not be enforced except by Congressional statute because Section 5 states, "The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article." There are a number of problems with that decision but even with that in force, there should be nothing stopping a litigant from claiming that any of Trump's actions are invalid because he is not supposed to be holding federal office under Section 3. The SC said only Congress can enforce the 14th Amendment but said nothing about the courts using the 14th Amendment to invalidate government action, as that has occurred in thousands of cases, especially in regard to the Equal Protection Clause.

Furthermore, this represents no undue burden on Trump because Section 3 kindly offers a remedy: "But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability." Wouldn't it be interesting to have that vote?



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bucolic_frolic

(46,970 posts)
1. Didn't SCOTUS invalidate 14A Sec 3 by granting unlimited immunity?
Mon Nov 18, 2024, 07:35 AM
Monday

That's what they said. But throwing it back at them in court would be nice because they would have to admit they declared part of the Constitution unconstitutional. Big logical problem there.

nuxvomica

(12,877 posts)
2. I don't think the immunity issue is in play here
Mon Nov 18, 2024, 07:42 AM
Monday

The immunity issue protects Trump from criminal prosecution so maybe he can't be prosecuted for the insurrection but Section 3 is a civil matter, and should only require a finding of fact on his engagement in the insurrection, which the Colorado courts already returned.

bucolic_frolic

(46,970 posts)
4. Yes you are correct.
Mon Nov 18, 2024, 08:19 AM
Monday

Immunity for "official acts" even though that is undefined in the Constitution. I don't think they meant he couldn't bump off anyone he wants, though they could be willing to consider if an argument can be made it was an official act to protect the State.

That SCOTUS ruling may yet be seem as typical LE jargon, giving the crooks free reign so we can rule later.

Rhiannon12866

(222,072 posts)
5. K&R! Well researched, but of course this depends on the courts and legislators following both the law and precedent
Mon Nov 18, 2024, 08:55 PM
Monday

That hasn't been the case in recent filings, since the Constitution was clear that an insurrectionist was unqualified to even run for public office and voters had no scruples in voting for a convicted felon and a candidate determined to be guilty of sexual assault for the highest office in the land.

nuxvomica

(12,877 posts)
6. Any litigation of this type would end up in the Supreme Court
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 04:15 PM
Tuesday

But I want them, or Congress, to be forced to address it. To me, it's a serious issue when the presidency is under such a constitutional cloud. We should not have a presidency that is in violation of the plain text of the Constitution.

Zeitghost

(4,550 posts)
7. The Court has already ruled 9-0 in the CO Case
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 05:07 PM
Tuesday

That the 14th amendment does not preclude Trump from being President.

An insurrectionist is someone who has engaged in and been convicted of insurrection, a specific federal crime.

nuxvomica

(12,877 posts)
8. No. The court ruled only Congress can enforce Section 3
Tue Nov 19, 2024, 05:18 PM
Tuesday

They did not rule that an insurrectionist under Section 3 needs to be criminally convicted.

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