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H2O Man

(75,454 posts)
Sat Nov 16, 2024, 05:19 PM Saturday

Dollars & Dimes

"Important elements of democracy existed in the infant American republic of the 1780s, but the republic was not democratic. Nor, in the minds of those who governed it, was it supposed to be. A republic -- the res publica, or 'public thing,' was meant to secure the common good through the ministrations of the most worthy, enlightened men. A democracy -- derived from demos krateo, 'rule of the people' -- dangerously handed power to the impassioned, unenlighted masses."
-- Sean Wilentz, "The Rise of American Democracy: Jefferson to Lincoln," W.W. Norton & Company, 2005, page xvii of preface.


In recent decades, we have considered two political parties -- the Democratic and republicans in control of most elections. There have been a few minor third party candidates, generally annoying pests, that may have influenced the outcome of presidential elections. But the numerous third parties accounted for a small percentage of voters.

Yet 2024 has changed the landscape, with independent voters now outnumbering either the Democratic or republican party. In fact, independents out-voted either major party for the first time. Perhaps, as members of the Democratic Party, we should remember the words of President Lyndon Johnson six decades ago: "We must change to master change."

This obviously doesn't mean compromising our values, or leaving the party. It does mean studying history, rather than memes, and focusing on the relatively rapid growth of the number of independent voters. And considering some of the implications of numerous third parties.

One of the interesting features of the antebellum America in the mid-1800s was the number of parties that were active in national political life. Now, we all remember the felon saying people didn't know that Lincoln was a republican. Hopefully, every person aged 7 and over knows that. But less hopeful is encountering people who don't know that the Democratic and republican parties were very different in that era.

They represented different sides on the issue of slavery, which led to the Civil War. Republicans then understood the war was about slavery; republicans today hypnotized into believing that it was abo0ut states' rights. Thus, we see that being that ignorant about true history is dangerous. It leads people to want to ban actual history books from school libraries, so that children do not learn how barbaric slavery was, nor the KKK/ Jim Crow eras that followed.

I assume most here are familiar with the "Know Nothing" party, true name: "American Party." It's #1 issue was those darned Irish catholic immigrants. They formed dangerous gangs, those darned Irish. Getting drunk, stealing, and fighting. There was the "Constitutional Unity Party," that advocated relying on the US Constitution as a living docu8ment. There was the "Whig Party," mainly in New England and New York -- including the doctor who used to live in this house.

The Whigs had split off from the "National Republican Party." They were primarily a middle class party. Among other things, they were aware of class warfare. There was the "Free Soil Party." They denounced the 1852 Compromise. And you also had the "Liberty Party," which had a more conservative wing that sought progress through traditional means, and a radical branch that was against slavey, included women activists, and demanded equal rights for all.

Then, of course, came the Civil War, which historians note came between the Golden Age and the Gilded Age. The "Gilded Age" took its name from the 1873 novel by Mark Twain, about greed and political corruption. Now, obviously, thing are very different today, for they did not have cell phones back then. Still, for an exercise few will think interesting, let's consider the various third parties of the modern era that have made it to being on the ballot in national elections.

Let's look at the 2022 statistics. The Green Party had .19% of registered voters. The Constitution Party had .11%. The Libertarian Party had .06%, and the Working Families Party had .05%. Coming in a distant last place was the Reform Party, with under 4,500 members nation-wide.

And there are numerous ones even smaller than the Reform Party, that never make it onto the ballot. These include, but are not limited to, the Christian Liberty Party. Anyone here that can identify both which candidate they backed in 2024, and the most noble goal of their wholly crusade to end the cruel oppression of white christian nationalists in America wins a free subscription to my posts on DU. Enter as many guesses as you want.

So, the combined total of these minority parties is .41%. Yet, since the republican party and Russian intelligence now bought the Green Party, it grew. This, despite the fracturing of the Green Party of the United States (GPUS) in the 1990s, when it was being co-opted from its original intent. Many here still blame Ralph Nader's 2000 Green Party run for Al Gore's having the USSC say he lost Florida, despite having more votes. Fewer blame the state's Jewish population for giving Pat Buchanan almost as many votes in Florida, thanks to the infamous butterfly ballots.

If one thinks Ralph played a role, in 2016, Jill Stein got close to a million & a half votes. That was more than the combined number of GPUS (aka Green PUS) votes in the last three elections. However, she was not a factor nation-wide in 2024. Her getting 22% in Dearborn does stand out. But not as much as the number of independent voters being larger this year than either the Democratic Party or the republic party.

There can be honest and sincere differences of opinion regarding exactly what our party can and must do to combat the greed, corruption, and attempted destruction of the rule of law in an age gilded with fool's gold. A good number of people I respect on this forum agreed with the campaign's bringing Dick Cheney on stage. I didn't, because I viewed it as stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime.

11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Dollars & Dimes (Original Post) H2O Man Saturday OP
'Study history rather than memes' Easterncedar Saturday #1
Well thank you! H2O Man Sunday #6
Lincoln was Woke. Kid Berwyn Saturday #2
Lincoln was, indeed. H2O Man Sunday #8
It seems like it has been going on forever. kentuck Saturday #3
Right! H2O Man Sunday #9
Thanks as always Hekate Saturday #4
Thank you! H2O Man Sunday #10
too many Dems didn't vote, didn't show up bigtree Saturday #5
Maybe they voted for the other guy? kentuck Sunday #7
Very interesting. H2O Man Sunday #11

Easterncedar

(3,522 posts)
1. 'Study history rather than memes'
Sat Nov 16, 2024, 08:07 PM
Saturday

This is great writing first to last. I came to DU just now specifically hoping you might have posted something, H2O Man. Thank you.

Kid Berwyn

(17,987 posts)
2. Lincoln was Woke.
Sat Nov 16, 2024, 09:34 PM
Saturday

The great Abraham Lincoln was an enlightened being who saw the spark of the infinite in each human person. For his trouble in saving the Union and in applying the Constitution, Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights to all men as equals, he was murdered by a cabal of white supremacists.

Similarly, during the rise of the fascism, the Party of Lincoln was targeted Manchurian Candidate style by the fascists who they helped get rich before World War Two and then aboard the Ratlines after the war. They came to Amerika to help beat the Communist in the Cold War. Their man Nixon, though, lost to a free thinking War Hero. When JFK said “Yes,” to peace and “No,” to the warmongers, they struck. And now, decades later, they have almost lost the country to Trumputin, only the latest in a long line of infamy.

My forefathers fought in the Revolution. Members of my family have served in all the wars to keep our nation free ever since. They would demand We the People do all we can to defend, protect and uphold the Constitution. As long as there are at least two of us who believe in the idea of America, the greatest idea conceived, H2O Man, we will fight. And we will win.

H2O Man

(75,454 posts)
8. Lincoln was, indeed.
Sun Nov 17, 2024, 12:39 PM
Sunday

It's funny -- there are several points I'm tempted to respond with, but I'll start with one that you know as well as I -- years ago, on this forum, there were a few members who insisted that Martin Luther King, Jr., was always a Democrat. But in the 1950s, he was a registered republican ..... the same as Daddy King and the rest of his family. Martin had a closer relationship with Nixon than JFK at the time.

But then came that 1960 presidential race you mention. And when Martin was incarcerated for "violating probation," he was taken late at night from county jail to the maximum security state prison in Reidsville. The plan was to place him on a "chain gang" with the most violent, racist white criminals already serving life sentences. It wasn't that these men would have anything to lose by killing King -- they would be rewarded within the institution.

Senator Kennedy phoned Coretta, something Nixon failed to do. Many thought JFK risked offending Democratic voters. But Kennedy then pressured the Georgia governor, Ernest Vandiver, to release King. When Daddy King was informed, he spread the word among the nation's black ministers -- for he was a much respected advocate for civil rights before his son was. And that got JFK the black vote in numbers that account for his election victory.

H2O Man

(75,454 posts)
9. Right!
Sun Nov 17, 2024, 12:46 PM
Sunday

I think it can be traced back to when agriculture created surplus, communities increased in size, and social stratification took root. I'm not suggesting that it immediately or always happens from the giddy-up. But it does after a certain level of growth takes places by way of expanding trade for resources from outlying populations.

bigtree

(90,146 posts)
5. too many Dems didn't vote, didn't show up
Sat Nov 16, 2024, 10:52 PM
Saturday

...get them engaged and we win much more than just the margin we lost by.

Too much is made by too many of the excuses made by a political cult of nihilists who chose to saddle nation with a convicted criminal as president; for whatever reason they participated in this atrocity.

It's not going to change a thing if we just continue to assume some imagined 'moderates' in the middle - people who have no moral compass to divert from their greed and avarice, as you point out - can be swayed by economic appeals, which should be evident to anyone who actually gives a damn motivates Democratic pols to action, and republicans to obstruct each and every one of those efforts.

It's a mystery to me why anyone still believes republicans care at all about the fate of working class Americans, except as fodder and servants to their accumulated and prospected wealth.

I suggest more than shame for these Trump voters. We need a national shunning; a national revulsion of anyone who would unleash this destructive political farce of a convicted felon and fraud against the nation and our people.

kentuck

(112,767 posts)
7. Maybe they voted for the other guy?
Sun Nov 17, 2024, 12:31 PM
Sunday

I doubt there are that many Republicans voters in this country?

H2O Man

(75,454 posts)
11. Very interesting.
Sun Nov 17, 2024, 01:12 PM
Sunday

I remember when I was young, my father reviewing vote totals with me. We focused on local and state elections. He pointed out that every time, the republican numbers were pretty much the same. He said that this was because the were organized from top down ..... that even if your republican co-worker said he couldn't stand a particular candidate, once in the voting booth, he would do what he had been told. He said the wild card was always the Democrats' turn-out, because it has wider margins that were often hard to predict.

While I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and likely stuck in the lessons of my father from long ago, the numbers from this year are a puzzle to me. I do understand voter fatigue. And I appreciate the repulsion many feel for political calculations in regards to the horror in Gaza. At the same time, it is obvious that things will become remarkably worse there under the felon than under Biden, while there was the possibility of positive change under Harris.

Small doors sometimes open into large rooms. I think opening the door to allow Dick Cheney on stage was a significant error on the campaign's part. While there are a few of his old buds alive, they recognize that Cheney's wet dream of attacking Iran is far, far more likely to take place under the felon. And there is a much larger number of independents offended by the war criminal Cheney being given any attention by the Democratic Party.

Yet the numbers still do not make sense to me. And that tends to suggest that things are worse than I think they are.

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