So regarding Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, Social Security,

[Cyrano]

they are EARNED benefits. But Republicans have always called them "government handouts."

Does anyone want to venture a guess as to what those programs will look like a year from now? They are about to screw America's elderly, but they wont stop there. Children, workers, Democrats, women, LGBTQ's, immigrants, Muslims, Jews, and many, many more are on their "let's screw them" list.

The bare hint of justice I see here is that all who voted for Trump will be screwed just as badly as the rest of us. Elections have consequences. So does bigotry, misogyny, ignorance, and outright stupidity.

[TheKentuckian]

1. They need far more than merely "just as much"

I want them to gnash their nasty teeth to the bleeding gums and that is on a good day.

Burn motherfuckers burn!!!

[HereForTheParty]

2. My fear is they allow sub-standard insurers

in the name of "choice"

[Skittles]

63. like they did with Medicare "Advantage"

complete scam

[HereForTheParty]

67. Even worse

MA at least has to cover the same treatments as original Medicare. The issue is they often have to pre-approve care (potentially deny) and restrict choice of doctors and hospitals. But they are regulated and required by law to accept all who want their plan.

Even worse would be some type of voucher plan where people are thrown into a market with insurers who aren't regulated or even required to accept them.

[Skittles]

69. yes MA has to toe the line - for now

when most people are on MA, Medicare will cease to exist - and your last sentence sounds like a repuke wet dream

[Fiendish Thingy]

3. Medicaid and Obamacare are not earned benefits

Medicaid is a means tested (low income) benefit, and Obamacare is an act that creates an exchange for purchasing healthcare under a set of strict regulations.

[Bettie]

7. Either way

a lot of people will be screwed over. In a big way.

[Fiendish Thingy]

8. Indeed. The cruelty is the point of it all. Nt

[Bettie]

9. What's going to be "funny"

not comical funny, but "see I told you so" is when all of a sudden a lot of people realize that they are getting screwed along with all the people they wanted to see screwed over.

So, they will be confused: happy about others losing coverage, unhappy with themselves losing coverage.

Apparently, they think they are immune from the leopards eating their faces.

And I will not be proud of it, but I will laugh at their pain, because they voted for it, they demanded it.

[Fiendish Thingy]

16. Well, I suppose widespread suffering is one way to unify the country. Nt

[Igel]

18. Yes, but "earned" puts them into the category of

things that are yours by some sort of natural right instead of them being an entitlement.

You are entitled to them because there's an act of Congress, signed by a President, that entitles you, after meeting certain requirements (length of work, and amount of past earnings and present earning; or resident status, current income, etc. ) to a cash benefit.

If Congress abolished the two programs there'd be no implicit right to obtaining the benefits unless some court decided that there was an implied contract based not upon what Congress authorized to be said but because politicians leaned out over their skis it making the baseless claim otherwise. You're entitled to them by the text of the law, not by a right of nature. I'd consider it massively unjust, but not even mildly illegal.

[spooky3]

52. I'm not a lawyer, but I disagree. People and their employers pay into

Medicare and Social Security for their entire careers, and these funds are separate from the general fund and designated solely for this purpose. Changing them means reneging on benefits that people have paid for. That's fundamentally different from, say, a change in the budget for a national park or changing a tax deduction rule.

Maybe more importantly, voters will imho be unlikely to let legislators reduce or eliminate Medicare or SS without exacting a political price. They are much more aware of/care about these programs than some others.

[Cyrano]

10. My bad. You're right. But the'll still get the hatchet.

[Hope22]

42. Canceling Medicaid can still collapse care facilities....

…where non Medicaid residents will be equally effected. Halted Medicaid payments can hobble a clinic or hospital….effecting every service rendered.

[BigMin28]

55. Republicans do not care if the system collapses

Look no further than the states that didn't expand Medicaid. Rural hospitals are closing at a steady pace. The ones that remain are cutting maternity services. Republicans do not care. The voters, especially rural voters keep voting for them because they think "the others" may get something they don't deserve.

[Hope22]

59. Eventually the chicken comes home to roost! Nt

If they are in a nursing home and the payments to the whole facility stop, I can tell you from experience it is a huge wake up call. Of course they won’t believe that it is happening.

[gab13by13]

4. They will be privatized

and once that happens the end is near. I am 77, I can get by without Social Security but I hate to lose Medicare, the new private insurers may not take old customers and if they do the premiums will be sky high.

[Irish_Dem]

11. Yes gutting Medicare will do the most damage.

It will force people to either die or go bankrupt.

[markodochartaigh]

24. When the Republicans tank

Social Security millions of seniors will be forced to sell their only major asset, their homes, into a market that will be spiraling downward because of the massive oversupply, in order to get money for their living expenses. Seniors will lose their homes, and the younger generation will lose their inheritance.

And, as in 2008, the houses will be snatched up for pennies on the dollar, in cash, in large groups by hedge funds. Individuals who want to buy a house will have little chance at the bottom of the market against hedge funds who can buy a hundred houses at once for cash from their golfing buddies at the bank.

Ruining Social Security is simply a way of asset stripping the working and middle class for the benefit of the rich.

[Irish_Dem]

27. Yes I agree.

The plan appears to be to force seniors out of their homes so the billionaires can buy up all properties
and turn the US into rental only homes.

So investors make a killing.

The reason I think gutting Medicare is worse is because in that case seniors lose their lives, not just their homes.

[LiberalFighter]

49. There should be different levels of income tax based on type of income

Especially involving how it could impact the cities for homeowners, renters , etc

[Irish_Dem]

58. The tax code will be written to favor the rich.

Not so much the rest of us.

[BigMin28]

60. It always has

It always will.

[erronis]

33. Very good summation. The VCs have been waiting for a repeat of 2008

but this time it will be 10 times worse.

[The Madcap]

56. That will result

In lots of suicides in cases where a bit of money might be passed down to children still on good terms. Bleak, yes.

[KentuckyWoman]

20. I hear you on the medical care aspect.

My sister's husband was a GM UAW retiree due to disability. It was a hot mess getting him situated. She said they could manage without his pension but not the medical care benefits. Roy Barnes and the local union prez stepped in to help iron things out. I don't know what people do when there is no one to fight for them. And... that is what we are facing now as a country.

Edit to add - yes the Democrats will fight as always, but with minority numbers across the board - state and federal, I am unsure how effective that can be.

[vapor2]

5. I think

if republicans get enough backlash they may not go there. CALL/WRITE every.single.republican re: SS AND MEDICARE

[Irish_Dem]

29. If they are rigging the elections with Russian help, they don't care what voters think.

Dictators don't need support of the people.

[KPN]

40. And we heard that directly from the horses mouth, did we not?

Having doubts is a sign of well-developed awareness. Too often we view it as irrational, as paranoia. Not to say that proof isn't needed, nor difficult to come by.

[Irish_Dem]

47. Sometimes it is not paranoia, it is realanoia.

The fear is reality not imagined.

[yardwork]

6. Republicans will not outright eliminate SS or Medicare.

Their voters won't tolerate it. I expect to see more sneaky efforts to make money off those programs. Medicare Advantage plans are a give-away to corporations. I can imagine the GOP forcing everyone into those plans, eliminating "government" Medicare.

I suspect they won't eliminate the ACA. Too many Republicans depend on it and it's already implemented through for-profit corporations.

Medicaid will be cut. Poor people are always the first target. But even that is problematic. If a bunch of poor people become uninsured, all the hospitals will go bankrupt. Can't have that.

Expect sneaky ways for the billionaires yo profit, not wholesale program elimination. The effect on most of us will be higher costs and less choice in providers. Which, typically, the GOP will blame on Democrats next election cycle.

[Irish_Dem]

12. Yes the plan is to turn over SS and Medicare to the billionaires who will suck out all the money

and make the programs very weak. They will probably exist in a fake form.

Congress will pass laws that hospitals do not have to treat sick people who have no insurance.
Just like they already passed laws saying it is a crime to treat dying women.

[Cyrano]

14. Yep, this is TrumpWorld

Project 2025 spelled most of it out. And future historians will forever question how tens of millions of people could have voted to put their necks into a yoke of oppression.

[Irish_Dem]

17. Yep. Like turkeys voting for Thanksgiving.

[erronis]

38. The "non-profit" hospitals are already doing a piss-poor job of treating the uninsured.

Unless you mean parking their poor bodies in hallways and waiting for them to croak.

[The Madcap]

57. Removing taxes on ss just gives an excuse to remove colas.

Also, expect to see ACA Advantage plans at some point.

[Walleye]

13. I hope these smart asses who are so happy now realize they will be supporting their parents and grandparents in the futu

[Irish_Dem]

31. People who voted for Trump don't care about anyone but themselves.

They won't be helping anyone else.

And they may not have jobs themselves when things crash.

[Walleye]

34. I don't know, even the hardest case won't let their grandmother starve to death, I hope

I don’t know maybe we have gotten to that point damn

[usonian]

15. Tariffs will crash the market and cause hyper-inflation.

Dems fault?

The rich know how to short the market.

Do you?

And when the AI bubble bursts, the trillions that companies invested in a dead-end scheme (it has already run out of training data) ...

Well, maybe Caligula can make a deal with aliens to provide his pal Elon with more data. It's To Serve Man, of course.

[TheFarseer]

64. Whoa-what about AI?

Genuinely curious.

[usonian]

65. AI has run out of training data, including the entire corpus of planet earth.

It is having diminishing returns despite even more billions sunk into GPU's.

AI (transformers) cannot deal with changes
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219719722

And is designed to predict text. One paper had it failing miserably on math problems. It does not reason. It only predicts.

Still, there is no more data. Everything has been scanned and scraped already. As the Internet fills up with terabytes of AI-generated data (viz twitler, Meta, etc. ) it will be feeding largely on its own output.

I would add more, but I'd have to scour the computer and post lots of links.

Reaction on Hacker News, largely tech heads and VC's is pretty negative, not what you'd expect.

Just a couple.
AI isn’t about unleashing our imaginations, it’s about outsourcing them. The real purpose is profit
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42159136
HN page has link to Guardian article and much discussion.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/nov/16/ai-isnt-about-unleashing-our-imaginations-its-about-outsourcing-them-the-real-purpose-is-profit

I am tired of AI
https://www.ontestautomation.com/i-am-tired-of-ai/

HN discussion
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41667652

Hacker News discussions sometimes go way off topic, like flaming back and forth about bitcoin, so skim if you read posts there.

Those billions upon billions spent, and valuations in the stratosphere based on "trees growing to the sky" may crash when faced with reality.

[KentuckyWoman]

19. Trump doesn't keep any promises.

Not even to his own family. His only loyalty is to himself, in the moment. It remains to be seen what he actually does other than head the kleptocracy that is MAGA. One thing for sure, none of his promises will be kept to anyone.

[Cyrano]

21. It's not just Trump

Last edited Sat Nov 16, 2024, 01:45 PM - Edit history (1)

The far right Heritage Foundation wrote the 900+ pages of Project 2025, much of which is straight out of Mein Kampf.

They have hundreds (perhaps thousands) of people they've chosen to fill the federal bureaucracy. They are people who will be loyal to Trump, not the Constitution.

We've already have had a preview of Trump's cabinet picks.

As of next January 20th, America will be a dictatorship with Trump as the figurehead.

[magicarpet]

53. The Heritage Foundation's-Nazi Manifesto-Project 2025 will do to American Democracy,...

... what the Federalist Society did to the United States Supreme Court.

Heritage will fill the djt admin with Fascist MAGA sychophants then transition American Democracy into a Christo-Fascist Hyper Capitalist Nirvana.

You deviate, complain, or protest their road map to a "Christian State" you will suffer their wrath unless you fully yield and capitulate while showing zero resistance to their plans of societal reconstruction and change. If you persist in being "WOKE" your skull will likely be cracked.

[Irish_Dem]

32. Even Trump may be inclined to keep his promises to Putin.

[Hugin]

22. Aside from the right's fake made-for-tv Sutherlandesque body-snatcher's reaction to The Other...

Their unending neediness to pull up ladders irritates the shit out of me.

Obviously, the two are related, but I am sick of the kabuki.

[Marthe48]

23. The number of people who will break thru the social safety net

is going to be breathtaking. Look at stats about people living from paycheck to paycheck, and being one medical emergency away from finiancial disaster. Most Americans have little or no savings. On top of that, just saw a headline yesterday that Americans are carrying a trillion dollars in credit card debt.

Then add that all of a sudden that nursing care for disabled children or ailing seniors is completely out of reach for people lucky enough to own a mobile home on a rented lot. All of a sudden, healthy adults are going to juggle their jobs, their relationships and care of those loved ones who can't take care of themselves. Added to that that, many Americans are out of practice living in multi-generational homes with relatives they don't like. There won't be a choice, because the evil voters who put this on us will be sure to shame anyone in their villages who leave their loved ones in a ditch somewhere.

If the r's fill their wish list, it won't just cause financial disaster, American society as we've lived it for 3 to 5 generations will be shaken to bits.

We'll wish for life to be nasty, brutish and short.

[Irish_Dem]

39. We may get that wish. :(

[ECL213]

25. My in-laws live on Social Security and Medicare...

They LOVE Trump. Think he’s Heaven sent.

They’re so fucked, and they’re too ignorant to know it.

I can tell you which daughter’s house they won’t be living in when they lose everything. They can go live with my sister-in-law and her asshole Trumper husband.

[GreenWave]

26. The handouts are to not grow food or oil companies to give back as bribes.

[Farmer-Rick]

28. Ohh, if project 2025 is enacted it's going

To be worse than that. A whole lot worse.

They want to get rid of the federal reserve and go back to "free banking". That's what we had when the Great Depression hit. No insured accounts thru the FDIC. When a bank crashes, it will take your money to pay it's debts. And leave you without anything.

The runs on banks in 2007 were minor. Wait to you see what they look like when accounts are Not insured.

Add to that 3 million federal workers being fired and tariffs on all imports. We are going to have a crash so biggly......

[Irish_Dem]

41. Two nights ago I had a dream about my grandparents who lost everything in the Great Depression.

My grandmother received an inheritance and she and my grandfather put a downpayment on a boarding house to generate some revenue. Then the banks crashed and they lost everything.

They never recovered from it.

I wonder why I had that dream.

[Farmer-Rick]

50. Some times your brain

Keeps working on a problem even in your dreams.

[cpamomfromtexas]

30. Don't forget Military Tricare for retired military

[Irish_Dem]

43. Tricare would be a very lucrative grift for Musk and his pals.

If they are going to gut Medicare, Tricare should be on the list too.

[Hope22]

35. One simple example of canceling Medicaid....

2009 in Idaho the State Legislature decided to can Medicaid. I had a family member in a nursing facility. The minute those payments stopped the shit literally hit the fan! I swear my family member was the only self pay person in the place. The director walked round big eyed for weeks. Employees worried if their paychecks would come and where they possibly could work if this continued. Everyone’s care came to a screeching halt. Supplies stopped arriving. It was difficult for every resident. I can’t imagine this on a nationwide multi level crash of SS, Medicare and Medicaid. Devastating is too weak of a a word.

[Irish_Dem]

46. I think the word you are looking for is "annihilation."

[Hope22]

48. Exactly!

Not an exaggeration.

[Skittles]

61. I'm pretty sure there was no literal shit on a fan

other than that, you are correct

[Hope22]

66. Well there were a shitload of people

Without any Depends or the aides to help them…unavailable! It wasn’t a scene any one of us wanted to be party to. Thinking of the imbecilic politicians in the Capital making decisions without care or thought. All of this coming our way on a potentially grander scale! No joke!

[Arne]

36. I'd like to see a reporter asking Rick Scott

if health care is lucrative and therefor why he isn't in prison.

[KPN]

37. Hear hear! Well stated. Sums everything up to a T ... and succinctly.

"The bare hint of justice I see here is that all who voted for Trump will be screwed just as badly as the rest of us. Elections have consequences. So does bigotry, misogyny, ignorance, and outright stupidity." Just perfect!

[Pinback]

44. They will screw the poor first, as always

On programs benefiting Seniors, they'll likely try to do a phase-out of benefits starting with workers in the 40s and younger, similar to what happened with defined-benefit pension plans a decade or two ago. They certainly will try to route everybody to Medicare (dis)Advantage plans* -- this is already well under way with volunteer sign-ups (54% of the Medicare-eligible population are enrolled in Medicare "Advantage" plans in 2024, per kff.org - https://www.kff.org/medicare/issue-brief/medicare-advantage-in-2024-enrollment-update-and-key-trends/).

If they can screw everybody out of Social Security and force them into having their only retirement security through defined-contribution plans such as IRAs and 401(k) plans, they'll do it. That's been a long-range dream of Republicans for many years. They know better than to just jerk it out from under current recipients, so those in their "Golden Years" are probably not going to lose their benefits entirely.

Screwing younger workers (many of whom are already pessimistic about their future Social Security benefits anyway) will help foment intergenerational conflict, which will pit workers and retirees against each other, leaving the oligarchs free to continue pillaging unmolested.

* Reminder: "Why I Think Medicare Advantage Plans Stink" by consumer expert Clark Howard -- https://clark.com/insurance/health-insurance/medicare-advantage-plans/

[bucolic_frolic]

45. More means testing and draconian cuts of 22%

They will hear from providers of these services though. If they spend less on health care there will be less health. It's a contraction for the economy. Entitlements will be diminished. But there too, you spend less, providers sell less. SNAP for example.

[Silent Type]

51. Republicans also make a lot of money off the 100+ million covered by these programs. So do Democrats, for that matter.

Truth of matter is that 67 Million are on Medicare, 20 Million ACA, and 50+ Million or so on Medicaid/CHIP, including half of the children in this country. Doctors and hospitals won’t get paid, drug companies, device manufacturers, etc. While perverse, the fact a lot of people profit off those plans, means it’s relatively safe, IMO.


I don't believe all Republicans will vote against that number of people. And, private insurance companies profit off everyone of those millions, so they’ll be lobbying and looking for allies. Same with provider groups, big pharma, etc.

Heck, we need 4 or 5 GOPers in the House and Senate to worry about a voter backlash in 2026 mid-terms. Think we'll find those votes. [Personally, believe we will have elections in 2026, although I know a lot believe otherwise.]

While we -- including me -- criticize privatization, look at the facts-- Since 1990s the only significant upgrades to our healthcare financing system involve private companies. Think Part C under Clinton that later became Medicare Advantage, Part D drug plans that rely on private insurers, ACA which relies on private insurers with government subsidies, expanded Medicaid pretty much relies on private insurance companies.

And of course, Medigap that has been around for 50+ years relies on private insurers. Finally, guess who administers original Medicare on local levels?
Yep, it's subsidiaries of private insurance companies, that credential providers, audit providers, pay claims of providers, interpret and apply broad and ambiguous Medicare laws and regulations, answers our questions, denies payments that don't meet coverage requirements, etc.

We can fight privatization till the very end, but we'll be sitting here 20, 30, 40 years from now debating the same thing.

[onetexan]

54. Non-MAGA Republicans in Congress need to form a coalition with Dems to challenge and fight the con's draconian cuts

and as for the rest of us, we've paid into the system. I'm going to be retiring in a few years and plan to sue the government for not repaying my just dues taken out of my paycheck against my will. We need to collectively have a class action lawsuit so that our benefits, which we've paid for and earned with our hard work, will continue to pay out as it should. Come midterms we can then at least take back the House to continue to deter some of their actions.

[Skittles]

62. they're not gonna do a fucking thing except goose step to Donald Fucking Trump

they have proven their cowardice over and over again.....since when has the greedy old pig party cared about what WE THE PEOPLE want

[John Shaft]

68. The data from those programs

will enhance logistics efficiencies when they round up "useless eaters" like myself. I hit every profile data point and metric.