The Worse the Chaos That Results, the Sooner the Eventual Revulsion and Turnaround

[babylonsister]

Hmmm. I dunno...indictments and impeachments didn't seem to make a difference...

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/robert-becker/112164/the-worse-the-chaos-that-results-the-sooner-the-eventual-revulsion-and-turnaround

The Worse the Chaos That Results, the Sooner the Eventual Revulsion and Turnaround
by Robert Becker | November 15, 2024 - 6:21am


Only consequences will ultimately persuade people what a catastrophic mistake they made.

The following is a guest opinion essay from a senior, long-time friend – brilliant musician, published author and pioneer computer wizard, Severo Ornstein. ...

* * *

copy of email sent last week —

Dear [daughter]:

I’m sorry the election has caused you such angst. Of course at my age it’s easier to be sanguine about Trump than at your age. But here’s where I come down — and I think it’s helpful to keep the following in mind.

Just as individuals ultimately have to face and deal with the consequences of their decisions and actions, so do entire societies. In the end it is the consequences of Trump’s actions and the MAGA movement that will shape the course of history. The worse the chaos that results, the sooner and larger will be the eventual revulsion and turnaround. Individually there is sadly very little we can do to combat stupid actions by the overall society in which we’re immersed. As individuals we can certainly look for opportunities to tweak what happens, but given the overwhelming support Trumpism has obviously just been handed, I think we need to wait and let the disastrous consequences sink into the public’s awareness. It’s really only those consequences that will ultimately persuade people what a catastrophic mistake they made.

So if it feels hopeless, it’s because it probably is. Bad things are inevitably going to happen that will hurt many people, but ironically it's that very harm that will ultimately bring about change. I don’t like to preach, but we learn most from our mistakes, and we’ve made a whopper this time.

We can watch as the entire system tries to resist his most destructive instincts, but we don’t really know how that resistance will go. Right now he’s got the element of surprise on his side: "How could anyone get away with doing THAT?" But eventually the chickens will start coming home to roost and there will be a groundswell of revulsion and rebellion. Only then will it be time to put shoulder to wheel. Right now any attempt by individuals will be “pissing into the wind” — which is clearly blowing the other way. It’s not just Trump that’s wrong — it’s the majority of the country that has allowed itself to be suckered. The only thing that will alter that is consequences — of which there will be plenty, and no way to prevent them. Meanwhile agonizing over the various steps he will undertake does no good and only damages yourself.

There will come a time when acting will be helpful, but not at this stage. We’ll likely be dead and gone by then, and it’ll be up to your generation and the next to figure out how best to repair the damage wrought by our generation’s dereliction — most particularly with regard to public education. It’s ignorance and stupidity that are the real enemy that has allowed this to happen. A too gullible population let itself be bamboozled.

And backing off to a larger perspective, as a species we’ve constructed a house of cards that relies on a number of items that don’t exist in endless quantity — fossil fuels, dumping grounds for our detritus, etc. We’re seriously damaging the very planet that we require to survive. Stopping and reversing the damage would demand dramatic changes we’re unwilling to undertake, and as a result the consequences and agony that are coming will surpass anything that Trump et al will be able to inflict. Our species, like many others before it, may well turn out to be an ultimately unsuccessful evolutionary experiment. So best to relax and get what enjoyment you can out of life. Rome is on fire; for the time being, might as well follow Nero and try to enjoy doing your own thing!

Love,

Dad

[Macrophylla]

1. Maximum pain

And the quicker the better IMO.

[Irish_Dem]

2. We see no evidence that the American people will experience revulsion and a turnaround.

In fact the opposite, the worse Trump is, the more people love him.

[Macrophylla]

3. It's all theoretical

Untill it comes for you.
The American Ignoratti needs maximum personal pain to see it.
Let them have it
Stop saving them from their ignorance.
They have proven it's a waste of time.

[Irish_Dem]

5. How much pain will the cult need to make changes?

To let go of their adoration of dear leader?

We saw during Covid, the US maga cult held on to their belief system even though it killed them.

Germany and Japan did not give up their belief systems until their countries were bombed back
to the Stone Age and they were surrounded by Allied forces with guns pointing at them.

[Linda ladeewolf]

35. Koolaid, perhaps?

They followed Jones right up until he killed them.

[Irish_Dem]

37. Exactly.

[La Coliniere]

9. American Ignoratti...

great term. Yes, that’s exactly what they are.

[Scubamatt]

32. I hate to admit it

but I agree 150%; I think the best way to weather this coming storm is NOT to fight it to hard beyond emphasizing our disagreement and let maximum pain hit the sheeple. I know we as a party, believe in trying to help, but we are NOT actually helping by trying to lessen or soften the worst parts of this fascist regime. The people who whined because the price of eggs went up will need to feel what it's like when the tariffs kick in. And we need to be ready with the messaging how that's NOT what Harris (or Biden) wanted. We can't rely on the media to present a fair assessment of Trump's failures. They've been covering for/sane-washing him for 10 years now and will continue.

[multigraincracker]

34. And the best defense will be the use of humor.

Can’t wait to laugh in there face when they slip and fall. The one thing than drives him and his followers nuts is to be laughed at.

[brakester]

39. Where is...

a dedicated and wealthy leftist person/group who will buy up a large media organization and challenge Fox, Breitbart and others. Not to lie, cheat and blame like they do, but flood the airways with our positive vision.

It is amazing that in a large diverse country with a free press a large group of ordinary Americans voluntarily only listen to one narrow line of thought.

[TheKentuckian]

59. On Fantasy Island having Daiquiris with Mr Roarke and Tattoo

in a far better alternative reality.

In ours a person like that is probably never going to become a billionaire in the first place.

[GoreWon2000]

40. Then it'll be too late

The fascists have won and they won't give up power. It took a world war to free Germany from Hitler.

[DSandra]

44. What if Russia uses the United States for WWIII to attack and destroy Europe?

How will all you feel about yourself if you just let it happen?

[Irish_Dem]

49. The Japanese and Germans could not stop Hitler.

They had to be bombed back to the Stone Age by the Allies and watch Allied soldiers point guns
at them to decide they made a mistake.

[DSandra]

50. The only thing that fascists listen to is power and force

[Irish_Dem]

51. Exactly.

Trump is in the process of getting control of the US military which
is the largest and most powerful fighting force in the history of the world.

American citizens cannot stand up to them in any way and will be killed if they do.

[DSandra]

52. So Americans should just let them go and arrest immigrants, liberals, and LGBT people?

How about "belligerent white women that refuse to have babies?" Oh yes, America will become Gilead.

[Irish_Dem]

53. We have not figured out a strategy yet.

This is no longer the 60's and 70's where we are a democracy and can protest without being killed or jailed.
Though Kent State gave us a hint of things to come.

This is a fascist government now and we need to be smart and organized.
And careful. Our own Dem leadership appears to be pleasant and calm.
Keeping emotions tapped down and careful. Maybe this is for good reason
right now as people decide what to do.

I certainly ask young women to think twice about having sex with men.
It could be a death sentence.

[DSandra]

55. Better start working on alternate methods of communication....

Before the Trump Administration uses the National Intelligence apparatus to eavesdrop and crush dissent.

[Irish_Dem]

57. That is probably the least of our problems right now.

I once spent about a month in a fascist country.

Right now, survival is the name of the game.
Food, shelter, clothing, revenue.

[GoreWon2000]

63. Putin will destroy Europe on his own

With Trump back in the White House I bet Putin thinks he's already conquered the U.S. and without a shot.

[Fish700]

60. Isn't this what everyone was saying the accelerationists wanted and why they voted for Trump to burn it all down?

So they can rebuild a paradise from the ashes. I don't think that is going to work because MAGA wants the same thing. The reason their lives aren't amazing is because all politicians are the same and stealing that perfect life from "the real Americans." Only the outsider Trump can save them from the evil government.

[Blue_Tires]

11. Exactly... There is no bottom

And I really wish people would stop trying to apply logic and reason in predicting what Donnie and his cultists are going to do, because neither apply in this crisis.

[Irish_Dem]

13. I know we keep being told what Trump and his cult cannot/will not do.

It is all wishful thinking not based in reality.

[DSandra]

45. The bottom is America becoming like Afghanistan

[Blue_Tires]

46. With Donnie we're halfway there 😞

[milestogo]

47. If you take social security and Medicare away from senior citizens

and they feel they have nothing to lose - there will be a huge reaction.

Desperate people do desperate things.

[Irish_Dem]

48. I suspect it will be done cleverly and in increments.

First everything is just privatized to "save money."
Sounds good to seniors.

Then there is a decrease in benefits, increase in costs.
Per year.

Seniors complain, but don't protest.
This is done over four years.

If the Dems get back in in four years it will be too complicated to undo
and Dems get blamed.

[Think. Again.]

4. Good...

Let's cause a little chaos of our own by screwing up the consumer markets.

Don't buy anything you don't actually need.

Put that cash aside under your mattress for the better days to come.

Once the corporations start feeling the pinch, they'll set trump and his cronies straight very quickly.

[Dan]

6. Rather than putting cash under the mattress

convert to gold.

[Farmer-Rick]

19. You know they want to end the banking system as we know it

They want to be rid of the central banking system and put in free banking. That's the system in place right before the Great Depression. The Federal Reserve system was put into place as a way to prevent yet another Great Depression.

So, if they do as is outlined in the 2025 plan, when another run on the banks happens like in 2007, there will be nothing to stop the bleeding. Watch it's a wonderful life to see a bank run with no stops. Cash will be king...sort of.

It will mean all your money in the bank will be taken by the bank to cover its losses. And with no FDIC (it's part of the Fed and does inspections and regulates banks) to insure your deposits, you will never get your money back.

Much like when the banks took your homes, when wall street crashed the system.

Also it looks like Musk is going to institute austerity for all. Oh the wonders of a fascist regime.

[Magoo48]

20. Within the expected chaos, there will pathways to effective resistance.

Exploiting we citizens is corporate oligarchs’ bread and butter. If we buy only what we absolutely need, we’ll…

[EYESORE 9001]

7. It requires the goring of personal oxen to get their attention

This will endure as long as they perceive that their enemies are faring even worse. We’ll see how long that lasts.

[2naSalit]

8. People...

Especially Americans, are only willing to change when forced to in some way that inhibits them from paying attention to anything but their own survival.

[Blue_Tires]

10. By the time we hit rock bottom,

There won't be anything left to "turn around" because Trumpism and Muskism will be permanently baked-in for all of Washington. Trumpism is already going to control the Supreme Court for the rest of our natural lives, when does it end...?


And weren't we already saying this in 2017? That Trump would be so bad voters would have no choice but to sweep Dems to a supermajority and the GOP won't win another race for a decade?

People refuse to fucking realize that their chance to change the course of history was last Tuesday 😞

[Johonny]

12. Im pretty sure most of the cult will gladly drink

The Kool aid. The rest of us are already sick of him.

[Lokee11]

18. Probably an awful thing to say -

BUT - Hope they all DRINK UP the "Kool-Aid" and the sooner the better!!!

FDT✊!

[DownriverDem]

14. Let trumpers

be hurt big time. That's what I want to see.

[S/V Loner]

15. When things go in the shitter you know they will blame...

the Democrats and progressives. It won't make sense but you can bet they will do it and with a media that has knuckled under because of pressure they will get away with it. A dangerous time.

[MineralMan]

16. I'm afraid that history shows that idea not to be true.

Of course, you have to know history to understand that. Few people actually do.

Chaos and violence are actually the norm. Peace and tranquility are decidedly not.

[Passages]

17. omg

This is so wrong on every level. It could stay worse beyond Trump's expiration date.

[BeyondGeography]

21. The cult is so friggin brainwashed they'll be blaming Biden for inflation in 18 months

I would worry about our own house. If we keep going out there with same playbook; strong on social issues with some well-intended big donor-approved economic policies, we’ll continue to get our asses handed to us.

[LuvLoogie]

22. Nope. They'll keep blaming their problems on drag queens and immigrants,

minorities and non-patriarchal women. They'll descend into further violence.

But they will Never. Look. Inward.

[Nasruddin]

23. Fascist regimes can be very resilient

If they stay away from military adventurism or for that matter any problem outside their borders.
It depends on how they redirect and manage the anger that comes from mismanagement or failures of various kinds, but they main thing is that order is everyone's interest and the ruling elite have the most firepower to maintain the order they like.

That's why I'm not confident this current movement goes away easily. Some of them seem to know what they're doing.
On the other hand , gross incompetence at the top did them in before, and it sure looks like they're going with that again too.

[surfered]

24. It could help in the midterms if we survive til then.

[voteragain]

25. turnaround

turnaround to what?

trumpers and trump voters remind me drug addicts. they get high on turmoil and chaos. I have relatives and people I talked to enjoy what's going on !
may even be worse because that chaos would give more of an excuse to be like the nazi SS and sign up. blame game has been established with them and soon no rules and laws to stop them!

[oldmanlynn]

26. This won't happen if media like Fox News continue keeping them in the dark

Let’s be honest one of the number one reasons why Harris lost is because of the very powerful right wing propaganda machine that’s boosted and aided by Russia. They say that had Nixon had Fox News around. He would’ve still continued being president. We have got to do something to drown out all of that misinformation. I don’t know if there needs to be a limit on the first amendment. I don’t know how you do it but we have to do it.

[appleannie1]

27. When it effects their wallet, they just might realize they were conned.

Money talks and bullchit walks as the old saying goes. They don't care about the other guy but they do care about themselves. When all the people that do the grunt labor in this country are deported and the produce section is bare and the price of food goes through the roof, it just might wake them up. Meantime, I am stocking my larder for the days ahead.

[Ray Bruns]

33. Yea right. It's easier to con someone than convince them they have been conned.

Some people you can tell not to stick a metal fork in an electrical outlet. Some people have to learn by experience.

[Ocelot II]

28. Germany eventually recovered from Hitler, but the cost was horrific.

Will it have to get that bad before the turnaround, if there ever is one?

[oldmanlynn]

29. I will be honest, though part of the issue is the Democratic Party

Last edited Sun Nov 17, 2024, 09:45 AM - Edit history (1)

We as Democratic Party have not figured out how to get our messages through the sheer and huge volume of misinformation that goes on out there. it’s like a needle in a haystack our message of what we have accomplished is lost. Throw in msm playing both siderisms its hard.

I do like how souros and others in a group have decided to purchase better than 200 radio stations so this will certainly help get the message out there and start converting these Americans back to regular people. It would be nice if we were able to buy up some of the TV stations that are out there as well.

[brakester]

41. Oldmanlynn,

Who are...

"sorrows and others in a group have decided to purchase better than 200 radio stations"??

[oldmanlynn]

58. Sorry was letting my phone dictate. I corrected it.

[Ray Bruns]

30. But the problem remains. We still have to listen to Trump's every brain fart for the next four years.

[LAS14]

31. It's a hope I've been clinging to. It's one reason...

... I'm not so depressed about Gaetz and Kennedy as I might have been.

[shawn703]

36. Something seems to be forgotten though

With government functions being politicized, critical media and political enemies being prosecuted, the courts already in the pockets of that party and will only become moreso over the next four years - they can say and do anything they want, have it reported in any way they want, and there will be no consequences, political or otherwise, for them whatsoever.

[Grins]

38. Yes! Mencken said it years ago

“Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”

Let them live in the dystopia THEY VOTED FOR and watch them when it hits them “good and hard!”

And remind them: “You voted for this! Cherish it.”

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

42. This sounds like the Susan Sarandon theory of government and revolution.

Repugs are in charge, and see no reason to give that up.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

43. Election cycles usually go in 4-8 years but if we no longer have real elections, that won't happen.

Hoover- FDR/Truman
Truman-Eisenhower (McCarthy times)
Eisenhower-Kennedy/LBJ
LBJ-Nixon/Ford
Ford-Carter
Carter-Reagan/Bush
Bush-Clinton
Clinton-George W.Bush
Bush-Obama
Obama-Trump
Trump-Biden
Biden-Trump
Trump/beginning of 10,20,30,40,50 years of dictatorship?

[brush]

54. That's nice, the revultion factor witll cause a negative reaction and eventual turnaround.

But the MFer has totally immunity for 'official acts', meaning he can clamp down even more harshly on protests and demonstrations.

There is much historical evidence of such crackdowns in totalitarian states. Let's face it, SCOTUS has given trump that power.

[DSandra]

56. Easy to say if your not LGBT

LGBT people likely might face another holocaust.

[John Shaft]

61. Those outside the "mainstream"

the poor, and those who don't have very fall to fall to the bottom seem to look at all of this completely differently from those who enjoy comfort.

[DSandra]

62. For much of America, all it takes is a job loss and their job field being automated, making it hard or impossible...

to get another job in their field, which may leave them screwed.