WHY did we lose?

[BootinUp]

Choose the Top (#1 most important) factor, explain in the comments if you wish to.

My answer: the pandemic.

58 votes, 106 passes | Time left: Time expired
	The Pandemic
	4 (7%)
	Biden should have done something different
	41 (71%)
	Harris should have done something different
	13 (22%)
	106 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[sakabatou]

1. The media

Look how much free coverage they gave to Trump, barely correcting him, or pointing out his lies.

[FalloutShelter]

7. This!

[dem4decades]

51. Trump's win is still paying off for the media, his cabinet choices make good news content.

Trump is ripping the country apart, it might not ever recover, but the news will cover it, and talk about it.......right up until they fall in line with the Trump plan or are stopped from reporting.

We already know which way the LA Times and Washington Post are going to go.

[BigDemVoter]

118. I will NEVER forgive the media.

Where else could a fat, rich, spoiled rapist, traitor & felon who bloviates about « after birth abortion » & children receiving gender reassignment surgery while at school handily win an election? Sorry, but I am NOT going to pin this on ANY Democrat.

[femmedem]

2. I'd say the viral spread of misinformation. n/t

[BootinUp]

3. A huge factor but not directly in our control. nt

[MaineBlueBear]

52. So do nothing?

No discussion of how we lost will be complete without addressing the role of dis & misinformation.

[BootinUp]

69. In todays media environment

We need to have government invest more in providing factual information to counter the intentional mis/dis information. But I still maintain we were doomed this time. Based on my after the election analysis.

[Susan Calvin]

106. You didn't ask what could have been done differently.

You asked why we lost.

[Sympthsical]

4. Simple: Lost touch with the voters

Easy as that. And that can take a variety of forms. Whatever your bugaboo is can be a contributing cause. Racism, misogyny, minority resentment, Gaza protests, cost of living increases, Biden running/dropping out, etc. etc. etc.

When you see nationwide shifts of this nature, where blue areas show shifts similar to red areas, it's rarely one thing. It's usually a confluence of several different things, and each voter/region/cultural niche prioritizes differently.

I've said my bit (at great length) on all this. Just gotta talk to people and treat them as if they're actual people with their own thoughts and agency capable of making choices willfully. Not dumb, not tricked, not childish, not petulant. Just folks living their lives.

Obama knew this. Bill Clinton certainly knew this.

It just seems weird we have to keep relearning the simplest truth that should be obvious to anyone who's actually met people - not everyone thinks the way we do.

[BootinUp]

6. Sounds simple.

But what, specifically, would you have done differently?

[Sympthsical]

20. I'm thinking of writing a short essay about it

Because I want to be thoughtful and careful that I'm articulating accurately and well. But the gist of it is that we, as a party, got stuck into this kind of dichotomy that sees social and economic justice as almost separate things. Part of it sees 2016 as an inflection point. We had two options, and we picked the worst one. (I'm talking about ideological choice, not the choice in candidates. I have zero interest in rehashing the merits of any individual candidate there). We had the option to make the choice to fuse both justice movements together or the option to separate them more distinctly - we chose to separate them out of short-term political calculation.

Ideologically and politically, we need a kind of Unified Justice Theory that encapsulates the best part of our economic and social justice thinking.

Say Bernie Sanders' name here. Watch the reaction. Now go into a space with Bernie supporters and say Clinton's name. Watch that reaction.

That, right there, has been our problem since Obama left.

[BootinUp]

31. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I need to consider them longer. nt

[mountain grammy]

33. I don't really disagree that we've lost touch with voters

I just think the reasons for that are out of our control, like the media and the steady yammering of right wing ideas on well funded right wing media. I believe our corporate mainstream media has gone for the ratings instead of fairly and honestly informing the public.
Fox news has had a tremendous affect on America, far beyond what I thought possible. Many Americans are just brainwashed and stupid. Seems right wing Americans, tired of bullying the world, have decided to bully other Americans.

[mountain grammy]

64. I was sick listening to this speech

I remember it well.. After 8 years of Reagan, who actually gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented human beings, followed by Bush who did ?? we finally elected Bill Clintion, a Democrat. I was so happy. then this speech. That's when I really started worrying about the party I loved, while right wing radio was raging and saying much of the same, and fox news was just a year away.

I remember thinking, he can say all this, he can pander to the right wing, but they will always demonize and hate us.

Welcome to DU and thanks for trying to keep us honest.

[GoreWon2000]

76. It's about preserving the white anglo male, anti women and anti minorities power structure

that's existed since before our country even was a country. The white working class guys who voted in droves for Trump because they don't want to see women and minorities take their rightful place at the table will pay for how they voted with their wives dying from miscarriages because they can no longer get the medical help that they need, being forced to bring kids into the world that they can't afford because there's no more birth control, their kids dying of once eradicated diseases because there are no more vaccines and inflation going sky high because of Trump's tariffs that'll cause the cost of everything to go sky high because they'll now learn that consumers will have to pay for the tariffs and not China or other countries with Trump tariffs on their goods that are coming to the U.S. and say nothing of the tariffs placed on exported U.S. goods that'll tank the U.S. economy. All of this will be financially ruinous for these white male Trump voters who'll lose their jobs and their families.

[NewHendoLib]

5. Normalization by the MSM, endless unchallenged lies by RW media, the swamp of social media tools

[BootinUp]

8. Yes, but NO answer to that problem is not acceptable. nt

[NewHendoLib]

9. As it stands, we have no answer to this problem. It has taken decades and huge money

to build the right wing noise machine. I see no real effort to counter it.

[BootinUp]

10. If you think about it though, we have beaten these issues before. It was worse this time because: Pandemic.

People blamed the current admin for the pain, even though it was handled better than any other country handled it.

[4th gen blue]

11. Harris should have run her own race

I believe she placed too much emphasis to tying herself to the current administration rather than just running the campaign as 100% Kamala.

[Skittles]

13. RIIIIIIIIIIIGHT

and THAT is somehow worse than a rapist multi-felon seditionist? WTF

[relayerbob]

105. Hardly

She barely mentioned Biden, rarely talked about the economic advancements they made, the employment numbers, the CHIPS Act, the Inflation Reduction Act, the infrastructure growth, any numbers on how inflation had dropped, no comparisons of the prices of things from 201x to now, etc. She also didn't discuss Ukraine at all, very little on Gaza, or foreign policy.

After the initial burst of a week or so, she basically acted as if Biden hadn't happened at all.

[Skittles]

12. MISINFORMATION

when people think trans folk on the wrong team is a bigger issue than climate change, AMERICA HAS UTTERLY FAILED

[BootinUp]

16. I did not see trans folk as a top exit poll answer.

I have said above that there is a huge propaganda issue, but also that we have beaten it before.

I think on the trans issue, you are confusing bait with issues the swing voter cares about ( if I may be so bold ).

I do believe that some swing voters may be turned off by discussion of controversial issues. It may make them pay less attention to what the candidates are actually saying. They might tune out.

Thank you for participating. And I look forward to any other comments you have.

[Skittles]

18. I HEAR IT CONSTANTLY FROM THE REPUKES AROUND ME

THOSE RIDICULOUS ADS WORKED, REPUKES ARE EASILY MANIPULATED

[Shrek]

55. They weren't going to vote for Harris anyway

Any evidence the ads worked on persuadable voters?

[Skittles]

108. PLENTY

https://www.texastribune.org/2024/11/08/transgender-ads-motivate-texas-republicans/?utm_campaign=trib-social&utm_content=1731076145&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

[Trueblue1968]

14. Bad voters, ignorant voters. Women hating going on. Trump evil.

[albacore]

26. The Dumbshit vote. The Repub dumbshits who were dazzled by "They're eating the cats"....

..and the Dem dumbshits who sat out the election because Harris wasn't "pure" enough for them....Gaza or something. (She couldn't have been pure enough for the Dems who sat it out if she'd been the Virgin Mary.)

[Kennah]

15. Biden got 81 million votes in 2020 while Harris got 73 million votes in 2024

I'm thinking the problem was Democrats did NOT show up and vote

[BootinUp]

19. I guess you don't like this thread.

[JanMichael]

32. That number just blows my mind. How??

How is that possible?

8 million people, 10%, changed their mind?

[DeepWinter]

56. Biden stepping out so late

1) Biden stepping out so late was tough for anyone to start up a campaign right at the finish line. Put aside Trump and Harris, and you just have a race where one candidate gets to campaign for a year, year and a half, then the other one gets to start with only 3 months left. The DNC put Harris behind the 8-ball from the start.

2) Disaffected voters. Nobody voted for Harris as our candidate, Our Candidate was Biden, until we were told he was not. That still doesn't sit well with many Dems who still consider it an un-democratic process. Just go look at DU posts from that weekend. (Don't. It's not pretty, but absolutely proves my point.)

3) Harris has never been very popular. She was so unpopular in the 2020 Primary she dropped out with

[Dulcinea]

91. THIS.

Too many voters sat this election out. We need them to come back for the midterms.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. We lost because the president had a 39% approval rating in exit polls.

[BootinUp]

21. I know. I trace it back to the economic pain from the pandemic mostly. nt

[surfered]

27. That's it (fairly or not). Presidential candidates of the same party as the incumbent President,

historically receive the same percentage of the popular vote as the incumbent’s approval rating.

Harris actually over performed. Biden’s approval rating was 40% and yet she got 48% the vote.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Trump's awfulness is what made it close.

That's why this wasn't a repeat of 1980 but Trump's awfulness also makes the results worse.

[Shermann]

54. +1

Harris had to thread the needle between fully supporting Biden and his agenda and somehow differentiating herself. She doubled down on the former on the grounds that the 39% approval rating was disconnected from reality (which it was).

[Zambero]

82. Trump was at 34% toward the end of his first term

Voters seem to have forgotten why they dumped him four years ago!

[Tribetime]

22. I've been trying to figure it out

VP Harris was energetic exicting drawing huge crowds. Had great surrogates and great endorsements. Drumph was tired running a campaign of hate. Harris had a great ground game Drumph had none.
Could it be the billions of posts of lies by Musk
Could it be inflation and the border was more important than Democracy, Social Security, ACA , Abortion and Medicare.
Or could it be the country is racist and not ready for a woman President.

[BootinUp]

24. I like the fact that you are considering all angles. peace. nt

[GP6971]

40. Pizza...Pizza here!!

[Cha]

44. The Unicorn POOP was in Overload.

[GP6971]

41. Don't you ever tire of pizza??

Remember, you can redeem your DU pizza award points at our many redemption centers.

[Cha]

43. Too Much Unicorn POOP.

[GP6971]

45. It's really a shame that they don't

take advantage of DUs premier Pizza Reward Program...a real shame.

[Cha]

48. lol.. I saw that. Sounds

tasty

Mahalo, MIRT!

[Polybius]

73. Plus not enough time to campaign

July 21st to November is nothing. Trump had years.

[Iggo]

23. We didn't get as many votes as the other guys.

[BootinUp]

25. I guess you don't like this thread, either. nt

[Aussie105]

28. The underlying reason is quite simple.

People vote for a 'Strong Man', mistakenly assuming he would be on their side and use his strength to make their lives better.

The same logic applies to people who join a cult, and women who marry someone who becomes a domineering wife beater.

I can't vote though, 'Humans are stupid' isn't an option on that list.

[BootinUp]

30. You think he has 51% of the US population voting for a strong man? Nah. Maybe

45 percent think that way. The deciding factor is the 6 percent who voted for him because they think the Democrats are to blame for the price of eggs.

[Shermann]

59. More like 22% of the US population. nt

[Meowmee]

34. I think it is obvious there is no one reason, imo anyway

I listed them on another poll. The pandemic probably caused psycho to lose to B in part. But still he was never charged for his worst crime, murdering millions of Americans. Which everyone on all sides seem to just want to forget.

[Farmer-Rick]

35. The vote counts was hacked

That's my answer of why we lost. Trump, Putin and Musk hacked the vote counts.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219719662
Letter from cybersecurity experts about hand counting and 2024 election anomalies

[Wicked Blue]

36. Putin and Musk

and other oligarchs

[Doodley]

37. When one company is beaten by a rival company, should they say it is the fault of the customers? Should they say

nothing could have been done because the rival company lied to get their customers? No. That would be defeatist and would offer little hope for the future. The company that was beaten by the rival company needs to learn and acknowledge what they should have done. Anything else is putting their head in the sand.

[Bettie]

39. Media,

Misogyny and racism.

[WarGamer]

42. Because we failed to convince the majority of American voters we'd do a better job at what was important to them

[BootinUp]

47. Of course, but there has to be more to the story. nt

[kacekwl]

66. What was important to them ?

Deporting the illegals, ten commandments in school, drill baby drill, turning Gaza into a luxury resort, turning boys into girls while at school, throwing the press in jail, people eating dogs and cats, well I guess you're correct.

[DET]

46. We Didn't

They cheated, with help from Russia and Musk. And they’re so proud of it that they’re bragging, which will be their downfall. Hopefully, we can prove that before the moron is installed.

[hlthe2b]

49. 51% of voting Americans get their information from propaganda and overt lying sources, including bots and trolls seeking

to create chaos in this country. Those same 51% include some merely too busy working multiple jobs to feed their families to seek out and follow accurate sources. They read what their friends, family, and neighbors post or favor on social media. (Or feel so confused and helpless that many in that group don't vote at all). That said, an estimated 150 million of the 250 million eligible voters actually were registered and could have voted. How many of those voted, I haven't seen accurate figures yet. But non-voting, low information or invalid information-receiving Americans are clearly the biggest problem. But we lost due to the actions of the much smaller, heavily lie-receiving 51% of voters.

So, in two single words, the cause is "LIES" and "APATHY."

[Elessar Zappa]

50. Right wing propaganda, misogyny, and the economy.

In that order.

[Initech]

72. Social media too.

Literally every single post in my social media feeds was Fuckface this / Fuckface that, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 10 months. Never heard one peep about Biden or Kamala. Not one. Elon and Zuck are definitely to blame.

[Elessar Zappa]

75. I consider that under the "right wing propaganda" umbrella.

I agree though. Social media and right wing podcasts are a greater threat than Fox News and AM radio.

[Initech]

79. Well, if you watch Fox, they're back to acting like DC is their personal property again.

I don't but that's the impression I'm getting from social media. Fuck Rupert Murdoch.

[Hippasus]

53. 1996 IRAIIRA

Last edited Fri Nov 15, 2024, 07:47 AM - Edit history (1)

An attempt at appeasement capping off five centuries of white supremacy.

The notion of an illegal person.

[LiberalArkie]

57. I really do not think we did.

But this outcome may totally destroy the Republican Party by proving their total incompetence to do anything

[Mariana]

61. Religion.

Christianity in particular. 63% of Protestants and 58% of Catholics voted for Trump. Most non-Christians voted for Harris.

[Mariana]

63. What does that have to do with my reply?

[Mariana]

93. Yes, 58% of Catholics voted for Trump.

And 40% of Catholics voted for Kamala. What of it? I think Christianity was a big factor in the election.

If some people here said that your wife belongs in a concentration camp, I suggest you take it up with those people. I wasn't one of them.

[Mariana]

95. Your information is irrelevant to the topic of this thread.

[Mariana]

97. The topic of this thread is "WHY did we lose?"

Your post is about some shitty DUers who should be booted from the site. They are completely different subjects.

[Mariana]

101. One big reason TFG came into power

is because the majority of Christian voters cast their ballots for him - 63% of Protestants and 58% of Catholics.

[thebigidea]

113. I don't believe you. Sounds like paranoid persecution complex bullshit

Unless you're complaining about depressed Democrats lashing out over the election and saying Trump voters deserve all that they get. Which I mean, surely you can understand? It's just emotions running hot after a gutting defeat. Feel free to pretend that means Democrats want to gas your wife I guess.

Whatever justifies your bullshit.

[TBF]

114. Agree - I think this is the sleeper reason that we haven't focused on

nearly enough. I live in Texas & see it daily. Suburbs of a major city. I have neighbors who are highly educated, cultured, they travel, etc - and everything else revolves around their churches. I don't know how it is in other places, but I suspect very similar. When I moved here from a northern city and started taking my kids to activities the first question from other moms was "have you found a church yet?". The "Moms of Liberty" or whatever they're called are those white women who refused to vote for Kamala.

[Mariana]

115. The thing is, it's not a sleeper reason.

At least, it shouldn't be, because it was entirely predictable. Trump and other Republicans got the majority of the Christians' votes in 2016 and in 2020. Did anyone really think it would be different this time? Especially since the right-wing preachers have been getting ever more bold about openly telling their flocks whom to vote for. They have no fear of losing their tax-exempt status, because the Johnson Amendment isn't enforced.

[BootinUp]

65. It's amazing to me how few will say the answer

is the pandemic.

[crazylikafox]

67. Citizens United

[Arazi]

68. We're not ready to elect a woman

And certainly not a black woman

(So racism and sexism imo)

Along with a well oiled rightwing propaganda machine.

Harris ran a near-perfect campaign. This isn’t on her or Biden (who should have never been forced out in the first place)

[CTyankee]

70. Shudda, coulda, woulda... My guess is that Biden should have not run but supported Harris giving her more time for

a run. His mental lapse on live TV was just too upsetting for the American voters. Bad enough that we had Trump to deal with.

[Initech]

71. One of the factors we're overlooking: Isreal / Palestine

There were so many spite votes from American Palestinians who were voting against Harris out of pure spite for the current administration. That may have tipped the balance.

[BootinUp]

74. Yes, but a smaller factor than the economy,

according to what I have gleaned.

[TheFarseer]

77. Two things

I’ll start with the least controversial-The media pretends like it’s an actual debate whether schools should be allowed to give your kids a sex change during 2nd period but it’s not even an argument that Trump might cut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and severely negatively impact public schools.

Next, Biden should have done whatever he did with the border 3 or 4 years ago! They needed to take on price gouging and stop Private Equity from buying up housing, hospitals and farmland. They should have raised minimum wage even if it was only to $9 or $10 and passed family medical leave. And for God’s sake, legalize marijuana! At least medical cannabis. There should have been a major push for these things. They are popular!

[Emile]

78. Lies from the Republican Propaganda Machine

[LogDog75]

80. A different view

I think what happened was the result of a long-term operation by the republic party of continuously attacking everything Democrats say and do. It's a version of Death by a Thousand Cuts. They did it to Hillary Clinton for over 30 years to the point when she ran for president and it worked. In 2020, the public went for Biden because DonOld Trump was so bad in his response to the pandemic. Once Biden took office, the republic party, along with their misinformation department known as Fox News, continued their attacks blaming everything on him and the Democrats. Inflation caused by the pandemic as well as corporations raising prices blaming supply chain issues well after the pandemic ended and keeping prices high while shrinking the size of their products (greed-flation).
When people are continuously bombarded with the message from the republic party that everything is the Democrats fault they start believing it. It's part of the Big Lie where you don't tell a small lie but a big lie often enough people will believe it. Again, this is Death by a Thousand Cuts. Then, combine the Bit Lie with vague, jingoistic slogans giving people the idea DonOld Trump and the republic party have answers and they will be attracted to them. I think the following exchange in the movie An American President makes the point.

Lewis: People want leadership, Mr. President. And in the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone. They want leadership. They're so thirsty for it, they'll crawl through the desert to a mirage, and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand.
Shepherd: (Beat) Lewis, we've had presidents who were beloved, who couldn't find a coherent sentence with two hands and a flashlight. People don't drink the sand because they're thirsty. They drink the sand... because they don't know the difference.

[Omnipresent]

81. Inflation was halted, but prices really never came down much..

People were also hurting from high rents and mortgage costs.

[BootinUp]

83. And that is why I say pandemic. Just fyi

It is usually very bad when prices all go down. That is not the answer. So in my opinion any administration would have suffered a loss, as the people don’t want to hear the truth that this was a good outcome like best that could be hoped for.

[Omnipresent]

84. Inflation was a result of the pandemic so...

Your pandemic poll is losing ground to “Biden should have done something different”.

[TrunKated]

85. Sexism and Racism

[Babajida]

86. This poll needs more options

[lees1975]

87. Trump had a four year long, 24-7 media promotion.

It would be a rare day to watch an hour and a half of news on any network and not hear the name "Donald Trump" at least half a dozen times.

We lost our free press, that's why.

[Yavin4]

88. We lost bc of White voters.

The end.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

89. I'm not gonna vote in this poll, but I saw a LOT of pushback regarding Harris' "selection".

This is purely on the ground reactions I've seen from folks, but for the most part, a lot of Dems felt disenfranchised by the "Selection" of Harris. They acknowledged that they may lose some votes from black women or women in general if Harris was passed over, but they felt that a candidate that "Could win" was more important than worrying about possible losses from any demographic. The most important thing to them was "Winning". That said, quite a few of them acknowledged that the Party was put into a pretty brutal situation, having to run a new campaign with only a month and a few weeks to gain steam, so some of them just got behind the "D" regardless.

That said, there's a lot of ill will towards the Party over this. I know a few, not many but a few, who have sworn of the Democratic party moving forward.

[DiamondShark]

90. Check your phone's spam folder.

We "lost" from trump promoting Super PACs sending out multiple messages a day. I think they outspent Harris 5 to 1.

[iemanja]

98. That poll is a drastic oversimplification

There are many things that we did wrong during the election, but since you forced me to choose, I selected Biden since he should never have sought reelection.

[chouchou]

100. The Right-wing media/billionaires/anti-women/lots and lots of lies.

[brush]

102. Poor options.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

103. Because we played the

Bipartisan bullshit.


A lot of poor and low wage workers feel abandoned by the Democratic Party . The party who is the champion of the little guy.

Should have told the poor that they would help them personally financially and not cater to the rich or the corporations because they want the poor people to prosper. The rich have enough.

When Kamala got populist her numbers went up. When she talked pro business and bipartisan less people paid attention.

[relayerbob]

104. 4 - Too many ignorant assholes voting

[BunkieBandit]

107. I passed, but it's not President Biden

nor VP Kamala Harris, nor the pandemic.

[marble falls]

109. Too many fucking polls being paid outlandish attention.

[BootinUp]

117. Really???

[marble falls]

119. Really.

[BootinUp]

120. There is a reason we don't see eye to eye, but I don't have a clue what it is.

[marble falls]

121. Says the guy who who responded, "Really??".

[BootinUp]

122. Yeah, but you don't get to tell me what to post. So I discarded that immediately, lol.

[marble falls]

123. And visa versa.

[BootinUp]

124. Lets do this again some time!

[marble falls]

125. Let's not.

[BootinUp]

126. Exactly, its your choice. Make it a good one.

[oldmanlynn]

112. Why do we continue to not talk about the number one reason the massive massive misinformation campaign by Trump Russia

[Autumn]

116. Because voters in some states preferred trump over Harris. Enough of them to elect him. nt

[Irish_Dem]

127. The election was stolen and we let it happen.

And rolled over and did not fight it.

[haele]

128. The pandemic.Voters either lost their damn minds or retreated into a daily life bubble.

The GOP didn't make enough gains through fear-mongering to overcome the registered Democratic that didn't show.
And from the surveys, those who voted for all Democratic down ticket but *rump for president didn't make much sense unless you realized they really did want a Daddy who would just tell you how the chores were going to be divvied up to get an allowance while he took care of "heavy lifting around the house" instead of someone who expected you to participate in the running of the household.
There's been a real problem world wide with recovery from the Pandemic, the lingering stress and exhaustion of recovery and some hazy memories of the "Before Times" -which in most cases weren't that much better if not worse.
But people don't remember the bad stuff as much as they long for the good things they had to put on hold, but couldn't recover.

Haele