General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAre we really going to just standby and watch this nightmare unfold?
This reminds me of a bad comic book movie. It was an old Superfriends cartoon where Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman and Robin etc all lost their powers because Lex Luther used a Time Machine that allowed the Legion of Doom to push the superheroes out of the way at the right moment in time, and their evil villain counterpart was able to slip in and assume their role. This feels like that. If you ever wonder how the atrocities that Hitler perpetrated occurred, look no further than your living room because a fascist take over is happening in real time. Are we all just going to be Good Germans now?
Lovie777
(14,999 posts)enid602
(9,039 posts)Good Germans, but good toothless, smelly Germans with pot bellies, bad breath and poor taste.
polichick
(37,621 posts)yellow dahlia
(42 posts)AwakeAtLast
(14,255 posts)Response to peregrinus (Original post)
Post removed
Theproletariat
(42 posts)For many reasons. Going kinetic with the right is a bad idea. Not only do they have more weapons than us, they also train a lot more.
maxsolomon
(35,041 posts)"Welcome to DU".
Skittles
(159,240 posts)fucking morons
Theproletariat
(42 posts)Did I use a an adjective that isnt supposed to be used? When you grow up in a military household, some words stick.
Skittles
(159,240 posts)I KNOW WHAT I FUCKING SEE
DONE HERE
Elessar Zappa
(15,888 posts)Plenty of democrats know how to use a weapon. Plenty.
OMGWTF
(4,441 posts)slightlv
(4,325 posts)even with my eyesight at this point. However, with trump ordering the military and guard against us... we'll be in the position we said the Magats SHOULD have seen with their insurrection.
An enemy from without is easier to fight than the enemy within. I will do what I can... making statement both by voice and by action, and especially economically. But what else are we suppose to do? Take over the WH and shoot trump ourselves? So WE start the civil war they always said we'd start. Frankly, I don't give a shit. Too many americans did this. I will support and help those of us who knew better... and laugh at those who fell for it. Chicken shit? probably. But what other power does a 69 year old, 4'9", 82 pound woman with lupus and fibro have? I went through all this and more in the 60's and 70's. Americans have killed my belief in humanity, along with Israel and the Palestinians and Russia. I'm sorry... I'm just waiting to die. And trump will see to it that's sooner rather than later. I'm trying to make peace with that.
lapfog_1
(30,147 posts)Look what Ukraine is doing to the much bigger Russian army. Yes they have a lot of material help from the West, but they are kicking Russian ass. Still might lose the war because of our weak ass appeasers and Putin lovers.
I know our side has the brains and skills over Meal Team Six if it comes to that.
AkFemDem
(2,176 posts)Because some of us have been training with weapons our entire lives. Plenty of us are good ole boys and girls who grew up hunting, went on to serve our country, and still enjoy hitting the range now.
Again, still not an option. But don't fool yourself that only "they" own guns. 2A applies to all.
Theproletariat
(42 posts)Many of us are, but the numbers arent on our side. Many on our side want semi-auto rifles banned, so that alone shows how tilted the numbers are.
I never see the aforementioned scenario ever playing out, and rightfully so.
John Shaft
(750 posts)Meal Team Six right wing pieces of shit.
markodochartaigh
(2,056 posts)nt
Blue_Roses
(13,394 posts)I really needed that laugh...
Good one!
peregrinus
(196 posts)During the George Floyd protests the police had dump trucks blocking the roads around the main police precinct. This was a city of 1.35 million. It looked like they had circled the wagons from an old western. They were definitely in a defensive posture.
JustAnotherGen
(33,544 posts)Where is the research on this?
Theproletariat
(42 posts)?
Blue Full Moon
(1,153 posts)ZZenith
(4,321 posts)Youre definitely batting a thousand.
Theproletariat
(42 posts)I responded to a post talking about going IRA all I was pointing out is going that route will never work. Please explain how anything I have said is a threat?
Cirsium
(796 posts)You are just not honest about it.
ZZenith
(4,321 posts)but I doubt youll have the same success here.
Theproletariat
(42 posts)Dont worry, Ill wait.
My posts about not destroying your family and friendships over political disagreements?
Or the ones where others are making threats and I say it isnt the way to go?
Or how I pointed out that all this division and hate for the other side will eventually lead to balkanization if this ship carries the same course?
John Shaft
(750 posts)trust me.
Everyone see right through it.
Everyone always has.
Theproletariat
(42 posts)Im just not going to let someone falsely accuse me of making threats when I did no such thing.
Im just trying to figure out why you all are piling on me when I was clearly countering a post that was talking about going IRA. I would consider that a threatening comment, and it appears as if the mods deleted it, so logic dictates they do as well.
John Shaft
(750 posts)like we're supposed to be afraid of criminal child molesting right wingers.
Bring it.
AllyCat
(17,102 posts)Just letting them run roughshod over our democracy is Inadvisable. The GOP is going to kill a bunch of people. What do we have to lose?
Theproletariat
(42 posts)I get it. This situation we are in sucks. I get it. Certainly displeased myself, but, unfortunately, in our republic these things happen because everyone has a choice.
Last time was in our favor and this time it wasnt. This too, shall pass. Lets not get ourselves worked up in a fervor thinking RWDS are soon to be coming for us, as that is certainly never to happen.
AllyCat
(17,102 posts)Off to fascism we go.
wnylib
(24,375 posts)hootman
(48 posts)MontanaMama
(24,015 posts)Many on the left are well armed and well trained and dont brag about it. Pretty sure we could take Meal Team 6 and the Gravy Seals.
Theproletariat
(42 posts)And no, we couldnt.
But in the end, everyone loses.
Thats why people need to calm down and think rationally, as this hypothetical scenario cannot ever be allowed to metastasize.
orangecrush
(21,789 posts)Farmer-Rick
(11,399 posts)But just the rich ones. They are really bad at organization and working together. There is so much in-fighting they don't really work like a unit should. They don't like to take orders and work more like a mob. I've seen some of them train. They look like kids playing soldier.
A lot of former military are liberal too. Maybe the military today is a bunch of Trump humpers but the older Veterans have a lot of liberal ideals and ethics. They took an oath to the Constitution not to a dictator.
France had the best military in the world when Germany attacked and won. It was due to over reliance on a particular weaponized area and lack of strategic and intelligence flexibility. It's why the US sends it's Officers to war college.
Rainman4u2C
(13 posts)To say "France had the best military in the world when Germany attacked and won" is quite the oxymoron don't you think? Especially considering they surrendered to Germany after just six weeks.
Farmer-Rick
(11,399 posts)Of course Germany was better since they beat France. But France was considered one of the best.
Redleg
(6,135 posts)I suppose some of the so-called militias train. I don't think the others do much more than going to the shooting range on occasion.
WhiskeyGrinder
(23,830 posts)Irish_Dem
(57,371 posts)No one cares.
The people who do have no power and no backing.
GreenWave
(9,167 posts)Every day a new asshole and media erupt. No dem coverage.
BannonsLiver
(17,975 posts)Im going to point and laugh and say I told you so every chance I get.
RockRaven
(16,262 posts)maxsolomon
(35,041 posts)I'm not taking your bait.
"Welcome to DU".
peregrinus
(196 posts)To make you paranoid
Scrivener7
(52,730 posts)FirstLight
(14,079 posts)WTF do we do?
I WISH our current leadership would grow a pair and lay down some real effots to PROTECT US.
I wish I was younger and could do some actual damage.
It's like the ants in the movie Bug's Life...the big cockroaches have us all in fear.
If only we could actually form a coalition of resistance... where...? how?
If anyone gets wind of an actual IRA type of resistance, plz let me know. Noone would expect a mild mannered 50 year old of nefarious acts
And while we're on the subject....are there any contingency plans for when our internet gets shut down and we have no more DU??
WestMichRad
(1,805 posts)When they can use it to root out some of their domestic enemies ?
Nope, Im not paranoid, not me!
FirstLight
(14,079 posts)I posted a question on my college website asking if anybody had heard anything from the dean or any of their professors about what to expect in the next year and everybody jumped on me and said I was uneducated and paranoid and blah blah blah.
Very rude 😑
kerry-is-my-prez
(9,197 posts)yellow dahlia
(42 posts)Homoudont
(92 posts)These are historically bad picks. no way these all get confirmed.
Gore1FL
(21,883 posts)Those named so far requiring confirmation are:
Rubio, SOS
Hegseth, Defense
Noem, Homeland Security
Ratliffe, CIA
Stefanik, UN
Zeldin, EPA
Wiles, Miller, Waltz, McGinley, and Homan have a clear shot.
onethatcares
(16,571 posts)make them all "acting" members of the cabinet.
last time was just the practice round.
onenote
(44,620 posts)Trump did not name any of his initial first term nominees to serve as the acting department head while their nominations were pending.
Facts still should matter here.
At DNI
It sickens me to type that
mahina
(18,938 posts)What is the distinction that makes the latter not need confirmation? I don't have the head to understand the search results I see. If time permits. thanks heaps.
Gore1FL
(21,883 posts)mahina
(18,938 posts)Homoudont
(92 posts)Thanks... I will admit I don't know every aspect of how the goverment operates. Interactions like this help me to understand.
sarisataka
(20,991 posts)Are you willing to "water the tree of liberty" or do you have something else in mind?
onethatcares
(16,571 posts)the corpratists are the ones that wanted this, let them eat no cake.
That's about all we have unless the military decides a coup is in order
sarisataka
(20,991 posts)I haven't shopped on Black Friday in years. I guess I have a head start on not being a "Good German"
onethatcares
(16,571 posts)that you don't spend overnight after gorging yourself with factory farm bred anti=biotic filled turkey in order to by some shit the teevee machine says you gotta have?
FFS, get on the bus, gus. where's your "Murikan" spirit?
P.s. I already looked under the bow in my garage. there's a $145K shiney ass pickup truck my wife bought me. i'm styling
sarisataka
(20,991 posts)La Coliniere
(849 posts)and entire ship going under. Thing is were virtually helpless to keep it from happening. The election was our safeguard but now the lifeboats are full and too terrible to contemplate. Will the GOP senators confirm the forehead? Probably.
FirstLight
(14,079 posts)OMGWTF
(4,441 posts)doc03
(36,695 posts)sop
(11,180 posts)I think we're finally going to find out what happens when the institutions holding this country together go up in flames.
Beringia
(4,570 posts)sop (11,111 posts)
ForgedCrank
(2,190 posts)supposed to be clever or something?
FBaggins
(27,698 posts)She just needs to refuse to certify the results of the election on January 6th.
Why don't you show up outside the Capitol so that she knows you've got her back?
Progressive dog
(7,235 posts)and offered no solutions, just casting blame.
thebigidea
(13,231 posts)NITE OWL: "This whole situation... it's horrible..."
COMEDIAN: "Well, me, I kinda like it when things get weird, y'know? I like when all the cards are on the table."
NITE OWL: "But the country's disintegrating. What's happened to America? What's happened to the American Dream?"
COMEDIAN: "It came true. You're lookin' at it."
peregrinus
(196 posts)bronxiteforever
(9,403 posts)This is what they voted for. The GOP made the gruel and they will have to eat it too.
Cosmocat
(14,959 posts)We have basically had 2/3 of the country working against us the entirety of my now many years as an adult - the 1/3 full on lunatics and the 1/3 that sat around babbling about how they both are the same.
Its out of our hands now. It basically an airplane in its death spiral.
We are puking, while 1/3 is cheering like crazy and 1/3 are sleeping.
Kaleva
(38,160 posts)You didn't say in your OP what you are going to do
peregrinus
(196 posts)But if things look like they are really going sideways Im going to Iceland
Baitball Blogger
(48,027 posts)Before we even start stress eating
TheKentuckian
(26,181 posts)Baitball Blogger
(48,027 posts)I predict that the anti-government faction in this country will eventually lose their minds over one of his policies that directly affect them. See, they voted to damage and hurt other people. They never expected to see the negative side of a Trump administration.
cilla4progress
(25,901 posts)of US.
Putin's Puppet
Ya wohl
Ysabel
(2,080 posts)Why can't Biden assign a bunch of soldiers to defend the White House (and our country) from a bunch of murderous gangster Nazi's...???
I'm serious!
onecaliberal
(35,791 posts)They can pay for the healthcare and fly away from danger. They don't know the fucking price of eggs let alone shop for them. FUCK EVERY PIECE OF SHIT WHO LIED TO US.
onenote
(44,620 posts)bif
(23,973 posts)They'll get what they deserve.
rich7862
(194 posts)But we will be punished even worse than the trump maggots.
Blue Owl
(54,726 posts)Uncle Dick would pack up the hunting shotguns and take the big tough man Diarrhea Donny and JD Vance on a little hunting trip
..
Picaro
(1,798 posts)Do you?
Mass demonstrations?
Ive never done that kind of (or any) organizing.
What should we be doing?
Ive never felt so impotent. Its happening.
How can we fight back?
kerry-is-my-prez
(9,197 posts)Im calling my Republican representatives demanding that they do something about it.
yellow dahlia
(42 posts)RANDYWILDMAN
(2,891 posts)is what we don't have and have not had since 2000 ! huge problem and we have 3 members who learned that from Bush V Gore if your side, just yells loud enough they win.... we as a country have been f'ed ever since
AllyCat
(17,102 posts)just waiting for the denouement after being shown how to fight it.
Iggo
(48,262 posts)Yavin4
(36,365 posts)And hope to pick up the pieces from there.
summer_in_TX
(3,206 posts)Don't go kinetic (in the sense of an armed response or mass protests either one). That would be their "Reichstag moment" and trigger the Insurrection Act which would allow them to justify using the military to use violence in putting it down. You may think the battle would only be against militia and prepper types. But the purge that is highly likely to happen in our military will put them in the mix too. We are outgunned in that scenario.
It will harm our efforts if our leaders and others are jailed or killed. We need their brains and their skills.
We will do well by focusing on other tactics of resistance. Building and strengthening community helps us as individuals and collectively. Education is hugely important.
Speaking up and out is too. Not with ugly words or our own demagoguery, but forcefully on behalf of democracy, the rule of law, and vulnerable groups. Call out wrong stuff and stand up for the good stuff.
We are in it for the long haul. We'll need to rest and refresh, find support systems, stay healthy. We are in for an unknown length of time. Probably beyond one presidential term. However autocracy carries the seeds of its own destruction and never has endured, nor can it.
We should take heart knowing that democracy is embedded deeply in the American psyche and that it will be a flame of hope that will cause us to never give up. That flame will spread far and wide. One day it will prevail.
Response to summer_in_TX (Reply #67)
Name removed Message auto-removed
CrispyQ
(38,244 posts)Humanity's facing a huge deadline that's looming closer & closer every day. Democracy's just going to be harder & harder to hang onto with more climate chaos & we just dealt our country a huge blow. The pessimist in me doesn't see a good outcome for our species.
summer_in_TX
(3,206 posts)Climate change is a huge wild card for us all. And yet, the dream of democracy is powerful. I just have to have hope.
lees1975
(5,943 posts)A quick prosecution of the 14th Amendment, if someone has the balls to do it.
mcar
(43,500 posts)Hekate
(94,626 posts)aeromanKC
(3,479 posts)We get to watch Rome burn in real time. 🍿
Ocelot II
(120,820 posts)EnergizedLib
(2,127 posts)ecstatic
(34,367 posts)the appointments/nominations are truly horrifying. I got an instant headache.
It's like a nightmare. We're reduced to hoping for a... miracle... over the next 2 months.
Emile
(29,789 posts)Thanks Garland
jalan48
(14,386 posts)southmost
(814 posts)is what awaits when we march
MFM008
(20,000 posts)This swine is hiding medical conditions, I have alot of faith in clogged arteries, tic tic sooner than later.
Skittles
(159,240 posts)THAT'S WHAT JD FUCKING VANCE IS THERE FOR
Response to Skittles (Reply #100)
Name removed Message auto-removed
ShazzieB
(18,641 posts)I'm not sure what you have in mind, but one thing I'm NOT worried about right now is armed MAGAts coming after the rest of us. Why would they? Their guy WON, they're all happy and celebrating.
The only things I'm really worried about personally are Medicare and Social Security. My husband is an insulin dependent diabetic. If our health care coverage vanishes, he WILL be a dead man in pretty short order; no ifs, ands, or buts. I'll be blind in one eye from macular degeneration before long, if I can't continue seeing my retina specialist regularly. Social Security is the majority of our income, and we won't able to afford a pot to piss in if it's taken away.
THOSE are the kind of things I'm worried about. If any of them come about, no amount of Dems with guns are going to able to save us from them. A bullet in the head might even be preferable to some of the scenarios I'm imagining right now. I WISH we had kproblems that could be solved by buying a gun and learning to shoot it. We should be so lucky.
I don't mean to dismiss anyone else's concerns, believe me but it's just really hard for me to get worked up about MAGAts coming after us with guns right now.
Ysabel
(2,080 posts)I do worry that somebody might come after my husband with a gun...
The neighbors shout at him on the street driving by in their cars threatening to run him over and yelling at him that he's a pussy...
One of our neighbors from down the street threw a gun in our next door neighbor's yard. They also threw a bunch of drugs and a bunch of money in a suitcase into our yard. That was around Halloween...
ShazzieB
(18,641 posts)I have never experienced, witnessed, or even heard of anything remotely similar around to what you're describing. That sounds horrible, and I hate that you have been subjected to such awful things. I feel like I must pretty out of touch with how bad it is some places.
This area is purple, and we're on the outskirts of a bluer metropolitan area. There are definitely people around here who vote for TSF, but they don't make a lot of noise about it or call attention to themselves. I have literally never seen anyone in a MAGA hat, and it's rare to see a bumper sticker of any kind on a car. Like I said, I know for a fact there are Trump voters here, but I couldn't tell you who they are. I've never been confronted by one verbally, much less threatened in any way (and I do have bumper stickers on my car that clearly indicate my political leanings).
My personal experiences being what they are, it's easy for me to forget how different it is in a lot of other places, and I apologize for that. I It's absolutely outrageous that anyone is made to feel like they are in physical danger from those assholes, and I am truly sorry to hear about it.
Before the election, I did worry about MAGA cultists getting violent if he lost. I knew they'd be angry, especially since he was setting things up so they'd think the election was stolen. But since the election, I can't help but worry more about how his actions once he's in office are going to affect all of our lives. I imagine the MAGA jerks will be more of a direct threat in areas where they greatly outnumber everyone else, and in that respect, I know I'm lucky.
LeftInTX
(29,996 posts)ShazzieB
(18,641 posts)I'm not sure what you have in mind, but one thing I'm NOT worried about at the moment is armed MAGAts coming after the rest of us. Why would they? Their guy WON, they're all happy and celebrating.
The only things I'm really worried about personally are Medicare and Social Security. My husband is an insulin dependent diabetic. If our health care coverage vanishes, he WILL be a dead man in pretty short order; no ifs, ands, or buts. I'll be blind in one eye from macular degeneration before long, if I can't continue seeing my retina specialist regularly. Social Security is the majority of our income, and we won't able to afford a pot to piss in if it's taken away.
THOSE are the kind of things I'm worried about. If any of them come to pass, no amount of Dems with guns are going to able to save us from them. I WISH we had problems that could be solved by buying a gun and learning to shoot it. We should be so lucky.
I don't mean to dismiss anyone else's concerns, believe me. I just have a really hard time getting worked up about MAGAts coming after us with guns right now. Hell, bring them on. A bullet in the head might be preferable to some of the scenarios I've been imagining.
kansasobama
(1,493 posts)So far only Newsome has. This needs to spread and some Dem needs to emerge.
TBF
(34,288 posts)while AOC has joined everyone at Bluesky and plays video games in her downtime. She's definitely Gen Z's leader and planning her run. In fact, I expect all 3 to run in 2028 if there is an election.
NBachers
(18,129 posts)I a "Good German?"
I'm committed to maintaining my health, as a cancer survivor with one kidney and one eye, and living through this nightmare. I'll do my best to be supportive of those in my close orbit. I'll pay attention to what blue policies are put forth in my blue state and participate in them.
Living my life the best I can and maintaining my own survival doesn't make me a "Good German."
yellow dahlia
(42 posts)Exactly!!
RandySF
(70,614 posts)DSandra
(1,260 posts)bucolic_frolic
(46,973 posts)It will be a pleasure watching them, and never helping. Focus on our own lives and families and people like us. It's not a great solution because the pains will be systemic, but it's an everyday coping strategy.
doc03
(36,695 posts)military lose.
Loupe Garoue
(68 posts)but there is a good chance it was an illegitimate outcome.
Honorable Kamala Harris
The White House
Office of the Vice President
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20500
Dear Vice President Harris,
We write to alert you to serious election security breaches that have
threatened the security and integrity of the 2024 elections, and to identify ways to
ensure that the will of the voters is reflected and that voters should have confidence
in the result. The most effective manner of doing so is through targeted recounts
requested by the candidate. In the light of the breaches we ask that you formally
request hand recounts in at least the states of Michigan, Nevada, Wisconsin, and
Pennsylvania. We have no evidence that the outcomes of the elections in those
states were actually compromised as a result of the security breaches, and we are
not suggesting that they were. But binding risk-limiting audits (RLAs) or hand
recounts should be routine for all elections, especially when the stakes are high and
the results are close. We believe that, under the current circumstances when
massive software breaches are known and documented, recounts are necessary and
appropriate to remove all potential doubt and to set an example for security best
practices in all elections.
In 2022, records, video camera footage, and deposition testimony produced
in a civil case in Georgia disclosed that its voting system, used statewide, had
been breached over multiple days by operatives hired by attorneys for Donald
Trump. The evidence showed that the operatives made copies of the software
that runs all of the equipment in Georgia, and certain other states, and shared it
with other Trump allies and operatives.
Subsequent court filings and public records requests revealed that the
breaches in Georgia were part of a larger effort to take copies of voting system
software from systems in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Colorado and Arizona, and
to share the software in the operatives network. According to testimony and
declarations by some of the technicians who have obtained copies of the
software, they have had access for more than three years to the software for the
central servers, tabulators, and highly restricted election databases of both Election Systems & Software (ES&S), and Dominion Voting Systems, the two largest
voting system vendors, constituting the most severe election security breach
publicly known.
Combined, their equipment counts nearly 70% of all votes nationwide.
Ninety-six percent of Arizona voters use Dominion and ES&S equipment; 100% of
Georgia voters vote on Dominion machines; 98% of Nevada votes on Dominion
voting machines and the remainder uses ES&S; 69% of Michigan voters ballots
are counted on Dominion or ES&S equipment; 89% of Pennsylvania voters ballots are counted on Dominion or ES&S equipment; ES&S counts 92% of North
Carolina ballots; and either ES&S or Dominion counts 97% of Wisconsin votes.
Possessing copies of the voting system software enables bad actors to install
it on electronic devices and to create their own working replicas of the voting
systems, probe them, and develop exploits. Skilled adversaries can decompile the
software to get a version of the source code, study it for vulnerabilities, and could
even develop malware designed to be installed with minimal physical access to the voting equipment by unskilled accomplices to manipulate the vote counts. Attacks could also be launched by compromising the vendors responsible for programming systems before elections, enabling large scale distribution of malware.
In December 2022 and again in 2023, many of us, concerned by the
security risks posed by these breaches, wrote to the Attorney General, FBI
Director, and Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) Director outlining the security concerns and urging an investigation. Though there have
been limited, localized investigations,14 there is no evidence of a federal
investigation to determine what was done with the misappropriated voting
software.
Other relevant parties have pointed to the serious risks posed by the
misappropriation of the voting software. Before it was known that partisan
operatives had taken the software, Dominion Voting Systems objected vehemently to providing its software to the same partisan actors who ultimately got copies through voting system breaches, stating that to give its software to biased actors would cause irreparable damage to the election security interests of the
country.
Before the breaches in Georgia had been confirmed, the Georgia Secretary
of States chief information officer testified that having copies of the software
would provide a road map to the ways the system could be accessed. The
Georgia Attorney General opposed providing copies of the software to lawyers for the Trump campaign in a late 2020 election challenge, arguing that images of the voting system software would provide the keys to the software kingdom.
Notably, U.S. elections are potentially resilient because there are paper
ballots recording the voters intent in most states, meaning that even if the voting
system is at risk, the will of the voters can be determined reliably by recounting the
paper ballots by hand (although we are aware that not all paper ballots are verified
by the voter, and not all states take adequate care to protect the ballot chain of
custody.)
Audits will be conducted in some of the most scrutinized states, but in key
states they will not be conducted in a timely way that could reveal any concerns
with the vote count. In addition, in most states the audits are insufficiently rigorous
to ensure any potential errors in tabulation will be caught and corrected, and they
cannot be considered a safeguard against the security breaches that have occurred.
Specifically, Georgias audits are non-binding, and Michigan, Nevada and
Wisconsin laws do not provide that the audit be conducted before certification.
Therefore, it would be impossible to know for these critical states if the audits
uncovered errors or miscalculations before the state deadlines to seek recounts.
Among swing states, only Arizonas audit laws ensure that, if enough
discrepancies are identified, the audit hand count will be expanded to correct a
potentially incorrect result. In other words, aside from Arizona, in contested states,
there is no legal mechanism for the audit to correct the outcome, no matter how
much error the audit uncovers. Given these facts, the only guarantee for rigorous,
effective audits of the vote in the swing states will be through candidate-requested
statewide hand recounts.
(emphasis mine)
The facts around the voting system breaches are not disputed; it is well-
documented that there were severe, multiple voting security breaches before the 2024 election. To ensure that voters can have confidence that the breaches in
security did not taint the results of the 2024 election, we recommend pursuing hand
recounts in, at minimum, Michigan, Nevada, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania as they
will provide insufficient safeguards against threats posed by the breaches of the
election software and will not provide important information in a timely way.
Thank you for your time and consideration of this important matter.
Sincerely,
Duncan Buell Ph.D.
Chair Emeritus NCR Chair in Computer Science and Engineering
Dept. of Computer Science and Engineering
University of South Carolina*
David Jefferson Ph.D.
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory* (retired)
Election Integrity Foundation*
Susan Greenhalgh
Senior Advisor for Election Security
Free Speech For People
Chris Klaus
Founder
Internet Security System*
William John Malik
Malik Consulting, LLC*
Peter G. Neumann Ph.D.
Chief Scientist,
SRI International Computer Science Lab*
John E. Savage
An Wang Professor Emeritus of Computer Science
Brown University*
*Affiliations are listed for identification purposes only and do not imply
institutional
https://freespeechforpeople.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/letter-to-vp-harris-111324.pdf
MineralMan
(147,572 posts)You have one, right?
Ann B
(12 posts)It would appear that way. Even though Biden still has tremendous power, I have seen no rush by Democrats to get him to do something other than entertain Trump.