Well Kristen Gillibrand

[samplegirl]

Last edited Fri Sep 22, 2023, 06:28 AM - Edit history (1)

where’s your mouth to get Boebert removed?
Asking for every Democrat!!!!!!

[hlthe2b]

1. Some seem to confuse any and all criticism of our Democratic elected members as overt attacks...

I don't think that was the original intent, but some believe so and that seems to drive their actions on this score. I think it is time for clarification and hope that occurs. We aren't the RW, acting in sycophancy toward TRUMP and MAGA, and nor do I think anyone here really wants us to be in our approach to discussion. We are Democrats and policy/Congressional behavior/actions can be argued for and against. (my comment is global and not directed to the OP).

[jaxexpat]

24. She pushed a bullshit rap against Franken. That's the plain truth of it.

She had the Republicans eating out of her hand because of it. He quit because of it. We lost a powerful voice because she couldn't contain her own. She obviously had a list and he happened to be on it. She should not have platitudes tossed about how we should forget, forgive and excuse her because "we're better than them". She's no hero and she's not a skilled politician or her calculations about naming some of her own in the mad rush of "Me Too", would have been better executed. It's best for all that she is simply ignored until she's replaced.

[LizBeth]

31. no, that is not the truth. not even close to the truth. not even a little of the truth

[hlthe2b]

33. It truly was. Roger Stone and other of his ilk put the woman up to the whole incident.

She (Gillibrand) got taken in and whether or not you ascribe motives to her future ambitions or an honest misunderstanding of what had taken place and how she was allowing herself to be used--the end result was the same..

[MorbidButterflyTat]

52. I so agree

Tweeden was bullshit. An obviously posed photo from a USO tour in 2006. Seriously??

From Leeann Tweeden's Wiki:

"...operative Roger Stone wrote, "It’s Al Franken's 'time in the barrel.' Franken next in long list of Democrats to be accused of 'grabby' behavior."

I can't even. Gillibrand is not a savvy Democrat, if she's incapable of recognizing such a despicable, obvious right wing set up.

And if she can? That's even worse.

[LizBeth]

101. we were at 8 women not one. we were fighting for a state with an actual predator.

there were how many other senators and she was only the first one to speak out. we were on a tight time frame and had run out of time. act or be hypocrites. he admitted to do inappropriate behavior. and all these years he allows the blame to fall on one woman, for his behavior and him walking away instead of standing up and letting it play out. one woman, out of the whole situation. that is bullshit.

i like him and have always liked him but he is not the be all end all. set up or not the picture alone shows the sexist ass he was, i mean it is in the picture dont care all the interactions thru out that is what juvenile boys do. loss of job worthy, flogging worthy no... but jerk move and he knows it and most others do to.

we had a woman running, we were going after a lot of men with me too, and he got wrapped up in the whirlwind of it all because of HIS behaviors.

we ignore all the gray and reality of situation to give frankin a pass and blame it all on one woman and he has stood back and allowed without having real integrity and address who really was ultimately responsible for the whole tired show.

[hlthe2b]

102. First I never said she acted alone. That you repeat that BS & reframe what I said let's me know

you aren't a serious person on this issue. I do not tolerate strawmen arguments and the other deceptive tactics of our opponents. If you continue like that on this thread you will be largely conversing with yourself. But, you certainly will not be interacting with me.

[LizBeth]

103. because you seemed the most reasoned person out of three i presented the facts.

the reality of the time. i was not even commenting to your post per se but to the overall comment he did nothing and she is the witch at fault. you cannot argue the facts i presented but that is all i wanted was for people to consider there was more to this than one woman being mean to frankin. good faith. ya... lets go there.

edit to add; this is not bashing a democrat any more than it is bashing a democrat going after gillibrand, even though i do not hold the majority opinion. at least i see and express the good in frankin not reducing all of who the man is to one area in his life unlike taking one 3 minute action of gillibrand and making it all the woman is and has done.

[jaxexpat]

41. Upon receipt of your reply, I re-researched to see if my assessment was in error......

I found it to be, essentially, just as I said. This sort of discrepancy, however, is not alien to such subjects. Some think there are degrees of interpretation which can be applied as needed in such cases. One such person is D. Trump (a pseudonym, I suspect) of Florida, who writes, "accusing Kristen of pushing a "bad rap" reminds me of how Joe Biden stole the election from me".

It's all good fun until someone loses an eye.

[DenaliDemocrat]

90. The truth is it was political gamesmanship

Thinking it would secure the me too vote and help with her presidential aspirations.

[hlthe2b]

32. I agree. I am defending the OP having posted it against some others.

[RocRizzo55]

70. Exactly!

[Hortensis]

46. I strongly object to spinning RW crimes into Democratic sins.

Which this does -- 100%. Introducing Gillibrand is a non sequitur -- there is no connection between Boebert's trashy behavior and an imagined duty imposed on any Democrat.

This twisted false equivalence should be rejected. Whenever it appears. We can do more than just vote.

[Hortensis]

48. No, other "Dems" in congress are not spreading this false equivalence.

They spend their lives beating them off and defanging false narratives fed their constituents.

We need to teach our kids basic logic so when someone tells them things like "potato skins have nicotine, people don't get addicted to potato skins, THEREFORE tobacco isn't addictive" they can immediately spot the fallacy, i.e., phony connection between potatoes and nicotine.

Fallacy
1. LOGIC: a failure in reasoning which renders an argument invalid.
2. faulty reasoning; misleading or unsound argument

[hlthe2b]

50. Hortensis: pls ignore my previous comment. I was posting on another thread totally unrelated

and at work on my iphone and yeah, you guessed it-- I confused the two conversations. I absolutely agree with you on Gillibrand and the whole Franken issue, which you will see from my other posts on this thread...

sorry for the confusion. (the other thread was about the Senate dress code which seems to have gotten some folks very emotional)

[Hortensis]

64. :) Ah, now I'm un-surprised at it from you. Wasn't. Lol to the other thread.

[yardwork]

84. Well said.

I'm not sure why Democrats have this tendency to interfere when our enemies are damaging themselves. Some of us leap into these situations and drag the negative attention back to Democrats. I don't get it.

Republicans don't act this way. They're of a more authoritarian mindset, yes, but I have to admire their commitment to their team.

[Duppers]

2. Exactly.

[samplegirl]

6. She needed to speak up

She had plenty of lip to say about Franken.
At what point do we beat them at their own tactics?
The ol walk in lockstep seems to have won them
plenty of seats and power!

There isn’t a Democratic that could even come close to Santos, Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Green!

Sorry it’s long over time for democrats to quit making only fun at these people!

[brooklynite]

23. Of course, no other Democratic Senators (or House members) are criticizing her...

...at least not any more than usual.

But of course, we all know that Gillibrand was the secret Democratic Senate leader back in (checks notes...) 2018.

[jaxexpat]

25. The use of "Democrat" as an adjective is curious unless it's an example of......

, you know.

[Nixie]

104. Exactly.

Gillibrand also got plenty of help from the Clinton’s when she ran for Hillary’s senate seat, but when MeToo started up, she all of a sudden jumped on the bash Bill bandwagon. Now where is she when republicans need bashing.

[ananda]

3. No joke

..

[Skittles]

4. who?

.....

[ariadne0614]

5. Kirsten n/t

[Skittles]

61. oh....her

[gab13by13]

8. Absolutely a valid question,

[samplegirl]

9. I think so

We either stand together on this or make cartoons about them which does nothing.

[gab13by13]

11. The problem is,

Kevin McCarthy isn't going to listen to a Democratic Senator and the MSM is owned and managed by right wing domestic oligarchs.

Boebert is already in trouble getting reelected.

[PCIntern]

10. Yeah, well she apparently learned her lesson...

The problem is that we apparently all have to suffer for her to have done so. I don’t believe that I have ever been this angry with a Democrat as I still am with her. Her stupid political calculation cost her a significant career if she ever wanted to advance beyond the Senate. Asshole.

[samplegirl]

13. She should of been

at the very least making appearances and talking about her grave mistake!

[Jose Garcia]

12. Probably not, as Boebert is not a Senator, and her 'victim' seems to be

a willing participant.

[JohnSJ]

14. I think you are right. It appears in bohert case to be consensual. There is plenty to criticize

what happened to Franken, how he was never given a chance to defend himself, but pressured to resign by “mob” rule, and it wasn’t just Gillibrand who pushed for his resignation, but a significant number of Democratic Senators who share that blame. There is also significant evidence that this was a republican “dirty trick” setup.

Bohert criticism should be directed at her selfishness, hypocrisy, bothering others in a theater, and not following rules in a public establishment, and refusing to stop or leave until threatened that the police would be called

At least that is how I understand it.

[3Hotdogs]

16. Gillibrand thought it would make her popular enough to be president.

It didn't.

[JohnSJ]

18. That may be, but I think the OP is trying to compare Bohert's actions to Frankens, and they are

entirety different situations

It also isn’t just Gillibrand who should receive the blame, but all those other Democratic Senators who jumped on the bandwagon, not unlike what happened withe the invasion of Iraq

[DFW]

73. I disagree

Last edited Sat Sep 23, 2023, 09:34 AM - Edit history (1)

I thought the OP was comparing the reaction of Boebert's Congressional faction to the reaction of Al's Senatorial faction, both of which were despicable.

[JohnSJ]

80. From that perspective, sure.

[brooklynite]

21. Isn't it amazing how much power a Jr Senator has?

But...never ruin a good conspiracy theory.

[3Hotdogs]

22. ?

[brooklynite]

28. It is orthodoxy in these parts that Gillibrand, an 8 year Jr. Senator at the time...

Last edited Fri Sep 22, 2023, 09:36 AM - Edit history (1)

...had the immense clout and skill to convince every single member of Democratic Caucus (except, ironically, Joe Manchin) to call for Franken to resign (including Franken's fellow Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar).

There's also a general supposition that Franken was, of course, going to run for President in 2020 (I knew his fundraiser; he wasn't) and that therefore Gillibrand was trying to rub out her "competition".

[hlthe2b]

42. More conflating. Gillibrand's aspiration were independent of Franken--to that point I have NEVER

heard ANYONE nor READ any post suggesting her decision to go after Franken was out of fear that HE had Presidential aspirations--albeit she certainly seemed to hold those aspirations.

Nor is it true that a Senator--particularly a female Senator from NY with 8 years in the Senate had no ability to be heard, to interact, and to influence others--junior or not. Whether you consider "influence" to be totally non-synonymous with "clout" or not, it is clear that she did have the former.

[brooklynite]

43. "Women Democratic senators had been talking behind the scenes for at least the past week..."

"Women Democratic senators had been talking behind the scenes for at least the past week about how to deal with Franken, multiple aides told CNN. But those talks reached a tipping point Wednesday morning, they said, when Politico published a report at 9 a.m. ET of another woman alleging that Franken touched her inappropriately in 2006, before he was elected to office."

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/06/politics/senators-al-franken-resignation/index.html

But let's definitely place all the blame on Gillibrand.

[hlthe2b]

44. Please show me--go back as far as you like-- where I have EVER said it was all Gillibrand. You can't

Gillibrand was instrumental and a leader on the issue with the others, but it was the response of many that Franken reacted to and took the unfortunate but honorable course on behalf of his (personally respected yet mostly ill-informed) colleagues who were reacting to the moment and to the upcoming AL Special Election.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

53. "Women Democratic senators

had been talking behind the scenes for at least the past week about how to deal with Franken, multiple aides told CNN."

Well as long as the source is so transparent and legit.

[brooklynite]

54. So the only news you believe is when the source is revealed?

Must have hated all the "fake news" coming out during the Trump Administration.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

58. If that is what I meant, that is what I would have written

YOU were the one sarcastically decrying the "power" a junior senator has, then suggested alleged unnamed aides' are to be believed without question.

As a matter of fact, I DID hate all the fake news coming from the Orange Anus and his cult. Is that surprising?

[brooklynite]

60. Care to explain the relation between my opinion on Gillibrand's clout...

...and my willingness to accept a news story from a reputable media outlet?

Female senators took down Al Franken

Sen. Kamala Harris (D-CA) was among a handful of female senators who urged Sen. Al Franken to resign. Zach Gibson/Getty Images
As more and more women came forward to accuse Sen. Al Franken of sexual misconduct, top Senate leaders — all men — stayed quiet. It was not until a group of female senators stood up and said, “Enough,” that the tide turned.

"The allegations against Sen. Franken describe behavior that cannot be tolerated," Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (NY) tweeted. Within minutes, five other Democratic female senators posted messages urging him to step down.

It was a coordinated effort, sparked by a Politico report published that morning, which described new sexual harassment allegations against Franken by a seventh woman.

https://www.vox.com/2017/12/7/16742442/female-senators-al-franken-resigns

Avalanche of Democratic senators say Franken should resign

Democratic senators came out in droves Wednesday calling for Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) to resign following multiple accusations of groping and improper sexual conduct.

The charge was led by women in the Senate, seven of whom came out with successive statements seemingly in coordination calling for Franken to step down.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/363543-women-in-senate-call-for-franken-to-resign/

Democratic Women in Senate Call on Franken to Resign

Franken scheduled an announcement Thursday on his future in the Senate.

That future does not look bright. Gillibrand was joined by Mazie Hirono of Hawaii, Claire McCaskill of Missouri, Patty Murray of Washington, Kamala Harris of California, Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, Debbie Stabenow of Michigan, Maria Cantwell of Washington, Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, Tammy Duckworth of Illinois and Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire, who issued statements in a coordinated effort.

https://www.wral.com/story/democratic-women-in-senate-call-on-franken-to-resign/17166061/

[jaxexpat]

26. Double, ??

[samplegirl]

34. True it was all

about her!

[wnylib]

92. I don't think that she was looking that far.

Her sights were on being NY governor, or Lieutenant Governor as a stepping stone. Not a chance now. She has been an advocate for the rights of women in the military. She overreacted regarding Franken and was wrong. But she did not do it alone.

[tritsofme]

17. That's what makes threads like this so ridiculous.

It’s like, are they trying to be purposefully obtuse?

[brooklynite]

29. Conspiracy theories must be continually refreshed or they die away...

[samplegirl]

35. It's not ridiculous.

Maybe to you. If this had been someone in our party the media would of spent days shaming and everyone in the GOP would of been calling for her head!

[brooklynite]

39. But we both know that's not really the point of this OP.....

You specifically called out Gillibrand, and not any of the other Democrats in the House or Senate who have also not said anything.

[samplegirl]

45. She was the one calling

for him to step down that’s why!

[brooklynite]

63. Along with every other Democratic Senator...starting with a coordinated effort by the women...

But perhaps NY voters actually like having someone with so much apparent clout in the Senate?

[DFW]

74. Depends what the clout is used for

I'm sure that Wisconsin voters were thrilled about the clout one of their senators had 70 years ago. Later on, not so much so. Clout in the Senate is only as beneficial or benevolent--or as evil-- as the person wielding it (e.g. Moscow Mitch). Gillebrand is no Pat Moynihan.

[Joinfortmill]

15. Exactly

[Captain Zero]

19. Me too and Franken is still a sore spot with me

Pisses me off. Obtuse or not.
Don't give him the benefit of the doubt. and then
Then Bobert it's like oh it was consensual, and she's not a senator.
I hope Frankens mid-west values pac doesn't give a dime to any dem that ran him out.

[brooklynite]

20. Is Gillibrand in the House?

Did she get demoted?

nb: Gillibrand is up for re-election in 2024. Nobody in NY will be thinking about Al Franken at the ballot box.

[jaxexpat]

27. In NY, the mere mention of Franken at the ballot box could disrupt her re-election.

[samplegirl]

37. Because NY

Is not strong about their party loyalty.

[brooklynite]

40. Should NY have been "loyal" to Anthony Weiner and Andrew Cuomo?

[MorbidButterflyTat]

55. You wanna bet?

How dismissive of you.

[brooklynite]

59. Do I want to bet that the average NY voter doesn't care about Al Franken?

I started out in politics 40+ years ago as a Ward Committeeman in Philadelphia, and one lesson I learned quickly was "never confuse your opinions with those of the voters.

The average NY voter doesn't watch endless hours of cable news or read POLITICO. A significant number don't remember that Al Franken was a Senator in a State that wasn't NY and certainly don't care that he was compelled to resign and that DU places the entire blame on Gillibrand. Notwithstanding the blogosphere's outrage, Gillibrand will have no problem winning her Primary -- assuming you can find a candidate to run against her.

Just to review: the following Democrats were easily re-elected after ALSO calling for Franken to resign:

Cory Booker
Chris Coons
Dick Durbin
Jeff Merkley
Ed Markey
Gary Peters
Jack Reed
Jeanne Shaheen
Mark Warner
Michael Bennet
Richard Blumenthal
Brian Schatz
Tammy Duckworth
Chris Van Hollen
Catherine Cortez Masto
Maggie Hassan
Chuck Schumer
Ron Wyden
Patty Murray

[DFW]

76. I must have been using an incomplete list.

I had something from (of all sources) Politico stating:

"Democratic senators who had not yet called on Franken to resign: Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, Ben Cardin of Maryland, Chris Coons of Delaware, Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada, Tim Kaine of Virginia, Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, Joe Manchin of West Virginia, Bob Menendez of New Jersey, Brian Schatz of Hawaii, Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire, Chris Van Hollen of Maryland and Mark Warner of Virginia."

I know some of the above had private conversations with Al, but I wasn't aware of any public trashing of him. If CCM was part of the gang that urged him to resign publicly, I owe Al an apology, because I supported her to the max for re-election last year:




I'll have to ask her about that.................

[brooklynite]

82. As I recall, the only Democrat who DIDN'T call on Franken to resign was....Joe Manchin.

[DFW]

88. I guess I had a different recollection

From what I remember, there were 33 or 34 Democratic Senators who publicly called on Al to resign. As there were more than 34 Democratic Senators in the Senate at the time, that leaves about 15 unaccounted for. The Politico list would just about cover that. I DID mention not trashing Al when I was talking to CCM, but it was only one thing, and 3 years old, so I didn‘t dwell on it.

I was more insisting on residence-based taxation—the same thing I hammered home to Colin Allred last month. The holes in the double-taxation treaty between Germany and the USA make for me being taxed at over 70%, where the treaty was meant to protect citizens of both countries from being much more highly taxed in one than in the other. Only Eritrea and the USA do NOT recognize residence-based taxation, which leads (duh!) to double taxation. When I put it in terms a fundraising candidate could understand—i.e. I must earn $10,000 to be able to make a non-deductible contribution of $2500, THAT they managed to understand. But we Americans Abroad have NO lobby in Washington, even though our population is around 9 million, including about 6 million of voting age. But so far, I have brought this up with four sitting Senators, but we have no lobby, so, as usual, it‘s „Please Send Money, and then, please shut up.“ After all, all 9 million of us are „millionayahs and billionayahs,“ living on billion dollar yachts moored in the harbor of Monte Carlo, aren‘t we? Actually, for all I know, there are one or two. Fine, let Sanders and Warren rant, but the other nine million of us could use a little representation, too—something that seems to concern neither Sanders nor Warren, nor anyone else in Congress.

I guess that is enough deviation for one thread response 😝

[Scrivener7]

30. No one is going to like me saying this, but Franken shouldn't have resigned.

[hlthe2b]

36. I agree, but he has "old school ethics" and did so out of regard to his colleagues and so as not to

let the issue be used against Democrats in the AL Senatorial Special election that was about to happen at the same time.

Franken is a genuinely decent man through and through and it still angers the hell out of me that a few continue to conflate his activity as a comedian as the same as the lecherous and truly abusive behavior of serial sexual harassers--including some men here. I know (have repeatedly experienced) what is sexual harassment/abuse and it was not that occurring in a comedy routine or a staged comedic photo where no contact whatsoever occurred. Then again I can say that both out of the experience of having endured the real thing and the consequences thereafter, but also as someone not seeking to benefit/exploit the issue for future political office.

[Oopsie Daisy]

49. Yes. This... you explained it perfectly.

[samplegirl]

38. He wouldn't of had to if Gillibrand

would of kept her mouth shut! She’s a cut throat!

[Shrek]

57. Is the current Vice President also a cut throat?

https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/al-franken-urged-to-resign-kamala-harris/

[MistakenLamb]

72. You are being ridiculous

As pointed out in this thread, several Democrats called for his resignation. Yet people want to blame Senator Gillibrand with outlandish conspiracies of going after Democrats for her own political aspirations. Where is your outrage to Bernie Sanders? Kamala Harris? Other Democrats who ran for the 2020 nomination? What delusions are you under that give the junior Senator from New York these superpowers that all the other Democrats somehow didn't have? Why didn't these superpowers propel her to the nomination?

[DFW]

75. I had equal opportunity outrage

And I expressed it the time, and through the 2020 primary season.

I refused to give any support, moral or financial to any member of the Senate who had publicly trashed Al, and publicly urged him to resign, and not apologized subsequently (some have, but not many). Gillibrand was just one of five. I had equal disdain for Sanders, Warren, Booker and Harris.

[yardwork]

83. What do you think of Chuck Schumer's role in it?

It seemed to me at the time that, as leader, he could have stopped the calls for resignation and did not. Is it accurate to put most of the blame on Schumer?

I was appalled by how that whole thing unfolded. There wasn't even an investigation to determine whether the (mostly anonymous) accusers were telling the truth, or even existed. The only evidence we saw was a photo from a comedy tour. The whole thing stank of disinformation and outside influences, like that woman who accused Biden and then went scampering off to (surprise!) Russia.

[DFW]

86. Schumer's role was despicable as well

Even if he REALLY was focused obsessively on the Alabama race, he‘s not a fool. He knew that Doug Jones was history the moment he was up for re-election.

[yardwork]

87. Schumer's reasoning was that defending Franken would lose us the AL seat?

Full stop. Long pause.


Does Schumer actually believe that voters in Alabama really care about ethics and morals? Has he ever BEEN in Alabama?

This is the kind of reasoning that loses Democrats elections. Instead of defending our team, we get purist and wishy washy at the worst possible moments.

[DFW]

89. Absolutely.

The only reason the Alabama seat was in play was because the Republican candidate was a total moral sleazebag. To shine a halo upon us, Schumer wanted to give the impression that WE, the noble Democrats, don‘t „let our own get away with that.“ The fact that there was nothing that Al was trying to get away WITH, apparently didn‘t appear as part of the considerations. Schumer was making Machiavellian calculations, and Al came on the wrong end.

[yardwork]

93. Yeah, voters don't think that way.

Republicans, in particular, are immune from allowing ethical considerations to interfere with their votes.

The 2016 election showed us that voters will choose the shady, unethical huckster if they think that candidate might help them personally by lowering taxes, reducing regulations, etc.

Despite the incessant yapping of the MSM, nobody really cares that much about the personal ethics of politicians. Most people assume that all politicians are at least somewhat corrupt. Americans demonstrate, over and over, that their votes are based on transactional reasoning. Anything that makes Democrats look weak or naive - like throwing out one of our own for no good reason - just plays into the narrative that Democrats are too weak to be helpful.

So the Franken episode was bad politics all the way around. And bad ethics. It's unethical to force somebody to resign without even an investigation.

[DFW]

98. I sometimes wonder if voters think at all.

Schumer was thinking like a politician, not like a representative of the voters. Ditching Al was no more than a bad miscalculation--surprising for one who is supposed to know the ropes by now.

It's the same in any country. Here in Germany, it may not be as extreme as in the USA, but the same general principles apply. For a country with supposedly a very high degree of education and sophistication, people still get taken in by the wrong people. I say sometimes, because in all fairness, Angela Merkel WAS chancellor for four successive terms. And one time, and this was about 40 years ago, a Catholic anti-abortion-rights crusader from Bavaria was found to have forced his mistress to get an abortion. Unlike Rep. Scott DesJarlais, R-TN, he actually resigned.

[obamanut2012]

51. I agree, and said that on here when it happened

[Scrivener7]

67. And I think I remember you doing it!

[DFW]

77. I not only like it, but said so at the time.

I was still in Germany when he resigned, heading for the USA about a week later, although if Norm couldn't talk him out of it, I certainly wasn't going to change anything with my two cents.

[Hekate]

56. Do Senators have any sway over House representatives? Gillibrand's awful misstep was...

…Senator to Senator.

[brooklynite]

62. You're missing the point...

...this is the community's recurring "we love Franken, we hate Gillibrand"posting.

Happens every month or two...

[Celerity]

65. +1

[MorbidButterflyTat]

66. -1

[DFW]

78. I don't "hate" Gillibrand. I just don't respect her. There is a difference.

And I DO hold Al in very high regard. I think you would, too, if you spent any time with him, although I'm sure his fundraiser is a perfectly intriguing person. By the way, I can confirm what you already stated: Al had no presidential ambitions, and had no intention of entering the 2020 race for president.

[NYC Liberal]

69. Are you asking the same of the 34 other Democrats who demanded he resign?

Kamala Harris
Bernie Sanders
Cory Booker
Warren
Tammy Baldwin
Tammy Duckworth
Mazie Hirono
Chuck Schumer
Claire McCaskill
Maggie Hassan
Patty Murray
Bob Casey
Joe Donnelly
Sherrod Brown
Debbie Stabenow
Heidi Heitkamp
Ed Markey
Michael Bennet
Maria Cantwell
Dick Durbin
Patrick Leahy
Martin Heinrich
Dianne Feinstein
Jeff Merkley
Ron Wyden
Tom Carper
Tom Udall
Sheldon Whitehouse
Gary Peters
Chris Murphy
Jon Tester
Jack Reed
Angus King
Bill Nelson

[DFW]

79. I certainly would.

I only have met a very few of them, but I know that Bill Nelson, Jon Tester and Sheldon Whitehouse have long since apologized to Al personally.

[madaboutharry]

81. It was a weird time.

The “Me Too” movement was going full throttle. For a few months it was like Salem. Democrats jumped on the band wagon. As someone said above, there is a big difference between the behavior of a comedian and malignant misogynistic harassment.

[Brenda]

85. Are you saying the "Me Too" movement was a witch hunt?

Is that what the "Salem" reference is about? Pretty insulting to compare female rape victims to pious men who burned women at the stake.

And whats wrong with Democrats jumping on the band wagon of holding rapists accountable?

I do not think Franken should have been forced to quit but blaming Me Too for it is a cop out instead of blaming the Dems who signed off on it.

[madaboutharry]

91. That is not what I'm saying at all, Brenda.

[muriel_volestrangler]

99. So what were you saying? "Salem" is pretty obvious a reference to a witchhunt.

And you mentioned "Me Too" before it. Do you really think that denying the straightforward interpretation of what you wrote, without an alternative explanation, is good enough?

[MorbidButterflyTat]

94. Actually...

People convicted of witchcraft in Salem were hanged, not burned at the stake. One man was pressed to death between large rocks.

Al Franken was NOT and is not, a "rapist."

[Brenda]

97. I never said he was.

In fact, I said he should not have quit. That still doesn't justify the poster comparing Me Too to Salem, however the "witches" were murdered.

My comment was that the Senate should definitely be on the Me Too movement and what it stands for.

[Polybius]

95. + 1,000

When it was in fully swing, people were resigning for as little as something said 20 or 30 years ago.

[applegrove]

71. Good point.

[Polybius]

96. The two aren't comparable

One was consensual, the others weren't.

[TheProle]

100. "Every Democrat"?

How about these?

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/full-list-senators-call-for-al-franken-to-resign-282175#:~:text=A%20wave%20of%20Democratic%20officials,numerous%20allegations%20of%20sexual%20misconduct.