Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

ThoughtCriminal

(14,721 posts)
Mon Jun 12, 2023, 06:57 PM Jun 2023

IF Trump's defense relies on any of the arguments

being used in public by his allies, then he has no defense.

Are we going to have lawyers demonstrate to jurors how bathroom door locks work?

The defense is going to be entirely motions and witness/evidence challenges. Maybe some Kamikaze "Expert" witnesses who will have weird ideas about the powers of ex-Presidents.

So far, I have seen no effort given to refute or challenge the case presented in the indictment. None.


11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

TheRealNorth

(9,647 posts)
2. They will be arguing that Trump pardoned himself in his mind....
Mon Jun 12, 2023, 07:05 PM
Jun 2023

And that because he thought it, it's a done deal.

 

Alexander Of Assyria

(7,839 posts)
3. Courts are where Lies come to Die. Twitter level legal defences are useless as used toilet paper.
Mon Jun 12, 2023, 07:20 PM
Jun 2023

Courts love the thing criminals hate most…evidence and truth…Kryptonite, to be feared..

 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
5. Probably the best chance of a play where lies would go to die ...
Mon Jun 12, 2023, 07:44 PM
Jun 2023

Other than, say ... one's spouse checking the other's computer and phone

Frasier Balzov

(5,060 posts)
6. The defense will say that the Presidential Records Act controls.
Mon Jun 12, 2023, 07:48 PM
Jun 2023

I can hear that argument being put forward a LOT.

Barr seems persuaded that the Espionage Act puts Trump in hopeless jeopardy of criminal punishment.

GoodRaisin

(10,922 posts)
7. Mental illness would be a believable defense.
Mon Jun 12, 2023, 07:51 PM
Jun 2023

Not sure what else he could use to explain his behavior. He could fit the profile of a hoarder who had lost touch with reality because of age related hardening of his arteries.

LetMyPeopleVote

(179,835 posts)
8. National Archives issues press release debunking all of TFG's claims about Presidential Records Act
Mon Jun 12, 2023, 08:40 PM
Jun 2023

This press release was released after the indictment and makes clear that all of TFG's claims about complying with the Presidential Records Act are false



https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2022/nr22-001#June-9-2023-statement

June 9, 2023, statement
Recent media reports have generated a large number of queries about Presidential records and the Presidential Records Act (PRA), 44 U.S.C. 2201-2209. The PRA requires that all records created by Presidents (and Vice-Presidents) be turned over to the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) at the end of their administrations. Below is additional information about how NARA carries out its responsibilities under the PRA. Please note that the PRA treats the records of the President and those of the Vice President in almost the same manner such that, in most cases below, President and Vice President can be used interchangeably.


How much time do outgoing Presidents have to go through their papers to determine what to retain as personal documents?

The Presidential Records Act (PRA) requires the President to separate personal documents from Presidential records before leaving office. 44 U.S.C. 2203(b). The PRA makes clear that, upon the conclusion of the President’s term in office, NARA assumes responsibility for the custody, control, preservation of, and access to the records of a President. 44 U.S.C. 2203(g)(1). The PRA makes the legal status of Presidential records clear and unambiguous, providing that the United States reserves and retains “complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records.” 44 U.S.C. 2202. There is no history, practice, or provision in law for presidents to take official records with them when they leave office to sort through, such as for a two-year period as described in some reports. If a former President or Vice President finds Presidential records among personal materials, he or she is expected to contact NARA in a timely manner to secure the transfer of those Presidential records to NARA. ...

How are documents in the White House determined to be an official Presidential record or a personal record?

The Presidential Records Act (PRA) defines what constitutes “Presidential records” and what are “personal records.” 44 U.S.C. 2201. Personal records include “diaries, journals, or other personal notes serving as the functional equivalent of a diary or journal which are not prepared or utilized for, or circulated or communicated in the course of, transacting Government business.”

The PRA also requires that all documentary materials “be categorized as Presidential records or personal records upon their creation or receipt and be filed separately.” 44 U.S.C. 2203(b). The President does not have discretion to categorize a Presidential record as a personal record. ....

What are “Presidential records” under the Presidential Records Act (PRA)?

"’Presidential records’ means documentary materials created or received by the President, the President’s immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise or assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.”

Tree Lady

(13,282 posts)
9. I heard his number one thing is to delay
Mon Jun 12, 2023, 08:42 PM
Jun 2023

until after the election he plans to steal.

I think that is why he got rid of his last lawyer just as excuse to delay.

 

ExWhoDoesntCare

(4,741 posts)
10. He's used up most of the road he had
Tue Jun 13, 2023, 10:37 AM
Jun 2023

For delays--before Smith indicted him.

I don't see him getting very far, other than firing his attorneys over and over. and even that will grow tiresome for even the most TFGian of judges.

Wounded Bear

(64,324 posts)
11. Most bathrooms I've seen are only locked when somebody is actually inside them...
Tue Jun 13, 2023, 10:57 AM
Jun 2023

otherwise, they are open to be entered. Stupidest argument in the whole circus.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»IF Trump's defense relies...