General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo what's the deal with "processed" foods?
I'm tired of hearing the MSM say that processed foods are going to kill us. Most of what you see at the supermarket is processed in some way, so it's a bit frustrating and unnerving.
There's fear that we're going to create synthetic brains which enslave us, but at the same time we can't put beans in a can in a way that won't cause cancer??
There are rarely specifics offered, just processed foods are bad mostly because IMMUTABLE REASONS.
Rant over.
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bucolic_frolic
(55,136 posts)Food should be as close as possible to its natural state, not pureed, boiled, pressure cooked. Sugar is refined (processed). A raw apple isn't.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(28,493 posts)Can't see what's wrong with that.
Hekate
(100,133 posts)
former9thward
(33,424 posts)I have been eating them my whole life.
Raw potatoes are loaded with resistant starch, a type of starch that your body doesn’t digest or absorb. Instead, it’s used to provide energy for your beneficial gut bacteria (3Trusted Source).
Adding resistant starch to your diet has been associated with an array of potential health benefits.
In fact, studies show that it can lower blood sugar levels, improve insulin sensitivity and keep you feeling full to help enhance weight loss (4Trusted Source, 5Trusted Source, 6Trusted Source).
Resistant starch is also converted into butyrate, an important short-chain fatty acid that can improve digestive health.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/raw-potatoes#resistant-starch
Goonch
(5,056 posts)
forgotmylogin
(7,952 posts)A processed food is any food that has been altered in some way during preparation. Food processing can be as basic as: freezing. canning. baking.
So actually when people say "processed" they probably mean "highly-processed"
https://plantbasedandbroke.com/what-is-a-processed-food/
DFW
(60,182 posts)I have been to some fabulous buffets in that very room. Needless to say, in the Obama White house, the menu was FAR different.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,876 posts)Having to lay out McDonalds Hamburgers on silver platters.
What a tiny little man in so many ways. All the class and style of a carbuncle.
DFW
(60,182 posts)I'm sure they probably would have preferred to have been put in cryo until inauguration day 2021 rather than suffer the indignities of the Trump years.
Shermann
(9,062 posts)However, the MSM throws the term "processed" around a lot. I know what they mean.
kozar
(3,317 posts)I get what you are saying.
You are correct.
Koz
muriel_volestrangler
(106,209 posts)
Runningdawg
(4,664 posts)
Timewas
(2,739 posts)Is a process..................
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)reasons are very evident. The food industry is selling us sawdust and sugar and salt and chemicals and killing us in the process. Life expectancy is down these days.
GoCubsGo
(34,914 posts)All that salt is causing issues like high blood pressure, which leads to all sorts of other issues, like cardiovascular and kidney disease. The rise in Type 2 diabetes is due to all sugar being added to every damn thing, or being consumed in liquid form via soft drinks, energy drinks, etc. Lots of research indicates that it's also the real culprit in high blood cholesterol, rather than dietary fat, too. See also: high fructose corn syrup. And, that doesn't even cover the preservatives and other shit that's added to processed foods.
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)
canetoad
(20,769 posts)American food; various condiments, cookies, pickles etc. I bought a jar of 'American peanut butter' - out of curiosity, to sample the difference between that and Aussie peanut butter.
I couldn't eat the American PB. It was several times sweeter than our local stuff. It was the first and only time I've made a direct comparison. I think the retailers of processed foods in the US are cheating you all.
multigraincracker
(37,651 posts)with only one ingredient, peanuts.
Look at pancreatic cancer in Europe compared to the USA. They have strict laws on food additives.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)Almost all the European countries have higher rates. The exceptions are the UK and Spain.
https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/pancreas-cancer/by-country/
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)Look out; you'll see it plenty here.
meadowlander
(5,133 posts)Cutting a carrot into carrot sticks is processing, yes. But it isn't this (the ingredients in Pringles):
"DRIED POTATOES, VEGETABLE OIL (CORN, COTTONSEED, HIGH OLEIC SOYBEAN, AND/OR SUNFLOWER OIL), DEGERMINATED YELLOW CORN FLOUR, CORNSTARCH, RICE FLOUR, MALTODEXTRIN, MONO- AND DIGLYCERIDES, SALT, WHEAT STARCH."
When you remove fibre from food the sugars and starches hit your bloodstream faster which makes you produce more insulin to regulate it which causes a blood sugar crash once it's processed and all the insulin is still surging around in your blood. This can be a trigger for diabetes.
Likewise processing oils damages the chemical make-up in the fat which causes inflammation which leads to heart problems and metabolic syndrome (including diabetes) and potentially also increases risk of Alzheimers and depression.
And lots of salt increases blood pressure which increases your risk of stroke and heart attack.
So not "immutable reasons". As the only person in my immediate family who doesn't have diabetes and has watched my family go through blindness, amputation, vascular dementia and loss of dozens of years of productive lifespan, my advice would be don't fuck around and find out.
Sympthsical
(10,969 posts)Colorectal cancer rates are increasing in young people. NPR just had an article about it a few weeks ago.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/03/20/1163697875/colon-cancer-signs-screening-young-adult
A lot of processed foods on the store shelves simply don't have adequate fiber in them.
Fruits and vegetables are good things. I actually have this multi-seed keto bread I get from Costco (it tastes amazing). One slice is like 10g of fiber. I usually have 2-4 slices a day, because I'm a bread person (have to have toast with eggs, love PB sammiches, etc). Works a peach.
Shermann
(9,062 posts)Why can't the fat be processed in a way which doesn't damage it?
My real question is: why can't these things be fixed?
meadowlander
(5,133 posts)We spent 6 million years evolving to eat what we eat. Just because we have the technology to change it doesn't mean it's a good idea or that it improves necessarily on the original.
Case in point, we've been eating butter for 9000 years. Then about 70 years ago we decided fat was bad so we invented margarine and that became the miracle weight loss substitute. Then we discovered trans-fats are harmful and margarine tastes like ass so we're back to eating butter.
Just eating the butter but not so much of it would have saved a lot of effort.
Why strip out fiber and add it back in when the fiber was already there in the first place?
Shermann
(9,062 posts)Fresh fruits and vegetables are only good for a short time. Much of the processing that is done today has to do with preserving food and making it shelf-stable. Shelf-stable foods can be cost-effective and do not require refrigeration. Shelf-stable foods improve food security, are available in food deserts, and reduce the amount of labor required for preparation. Those are a few reasons just off the top of my head.
meadowlander
(5,133 posts)I don't think the solution is more complexity. It's finding a way to switch off food advertising and eat real seasonal locally produced food as much as possible. Not 100%. But more.
40% of the food we already produce goes to directly to the landfill. That's a problem with logistics that isn't solved with an even more complex food chain adding in whatever miracle chemicals have yet to be invented to result in healthier processed food.
Strawberries in December isn't a human nutritional need. It's a want fueled by advertising, lack of connection with natural cycles, and supermarket buyers chasing/creating demand. It's a choice that we can choose not to make. Education and behaviour change seems to be a lot easier to accomplish than inventing more chemicals to keep strawberries fresh longer and importing them from God knows where and then rolling the dice on the unknown health impacts. Just eat strawberries in June. They taste better, they're cheaper, they're more nutritious, and the carbon footprint is smaller.
I'll go out on a limb and say that most Americans that eat a lot of processed food do it because it is cheap, tasty(ish) and convenient not because they don't have any viable alternatives. (And before anyone accuses me of classism, I note that one of the healthiest complete diets on earth, rice, beans and greens, is also one of the cheapest).
If you want to make healthier whole foods cheaper subsidize them instead of sugar and corn.
If you want to make healthier whole foods tastier provide them in schools so that kids can develop a palate for them, and teach kids what's in season when and how to cook for themselves and (ideally) grow some of their own food.
If you want to make healthier whole foods more convenient raise wages and go to a 30 hour work week and give people sick leave and vacation time and subsidize childcare and improve access to elder care supports so people aren't so exhausted at the end of the day that they grab whatever rubbish they can from the drive through or nuke something out of the freezer. Plan walkable communities with good free public transport so that people have access to a variety of different sources of food. Build community gardens and food forests into urban environments.
We have the option to address the roots of some of these problems holistically instead of constantly trying to invent our way out of them and (more often than not) just creating more problems.
Shermann
(9,062 posts)All living things including humans exploit opportunities to save time and effort. Any resources conserved on one chore can then be applied to others to improve outcomes. It is very instinctual and necessary. I do think that long work weeks and the general hostile corporate attitude against working from home have resulted in free time and energy deprivation in the workforce. It's a real thing, and it isn't going to change.
So, we're back to trying to fix convenience foods. Avoiding them is simply not a solution that works for everybody. I'm not going to work 10 hours a day and come home and make hummus. From my perspective, that sounds a bit like "let them eat cake".
Of course it can be done.
No one would buy it when cheap Lay's were also on the shelf.
moonscape
(5,722 posts)perimeter for veggies, meat, fish, eggs, etc It’s certainly tough if one wants ready food and doesn’t cook, but cooking can be a simple, quick affair with some tips and a smidge of experience. I’ve gotten better about it and can have a delicious meal prepared and on the table in 15 min.
Response to moonscape (Reply #10)
Igel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Shermann
(9,062 posts)However, I still feel like I'm losing the battle when the fresh fruits and vegetables run out. I wish there were more healthy options that can be made from my pantry supplies.
multigraincracker
(37,651 posts)and fruit. Nothing added. Try the frozen wild blueberries.
canetoad
(20,769 posts)To the extent that any food is particularly fresh.
Peas, corn, berries - all just as good frozen as fresh.
gab13by13
(32,321 posts)newdayneeded
(2,493 posts)now I'll switch to frozen meals instead.
Yonnie3
(19,457 posts)because IMMUTABLE REASONS (and revenue).
erronis
(23,875 posts)Cutting a stalk of celery makes it processed.
Boiling steel-cut oats (already processed) until they are digestible makes them "more processed". Adding the oatmeal to something like yoghurt increases the "processing" factor. Doesn't make them less healthy - in fact makes them digestible by the human gut.
Michael Pollin also talks about foods that your grandparents wouldn't recognize as being edible, or foods with more than 5 ingredients. These are all just made up factors but serve as some markers that we can aim towards.
WarGamer
(18,613 posts)A lunch meat (Buddig Roast Turkey) sandwich and a sandwich with sliced roast turkey from your oven are quite different.
Model35mech
(2,047 posts)
OldBaldy1701E
(11,142 posts)
ret5hd
(22,502 posts)The chemical companies will thank you.
Kellogg’s and Dinty Moore will thank you.
Your hospital will eventually thank you.
If all you’re really looking for is total agreement with your point of view, just buy some blinders/ear plugs.
Shermann
(9,062 posts)...as opposed to having to avoid 90% of what is being offered at the supermarket.
ret5hd
(22,502 posts)shop the perimeter of the store. Vegs, dairy, eggs, meat. Of course, frozen raw vegs are fine too. Avoid anything in a box or Mylar bag.
Then, to make things REAL easy, get a spouse like mine…vegetarian, loves to cook.
I started to worry that I might become immortal, what with all that pure food and stuff, and that truly worried me. But then I remembered my cigarette habit, and the fact I cheat on her cooking by occasionally frequenting the local Sonic. So don’t think I’m all holier-than-thou.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)How many "healthy eaters" did not make it that far?
Sympthsical
(10,969 posts)Is added sugars, added salt, added saturated fats, and low nutrient content (vitamins and minerals).
It's sneaky and it can very quickly add up. Processed foods simply have more of those things jammed in.
With food you make yourself, you know what's going in, you know how much salt you're adding, you know the general nutritional info of the ingredients. It's generally easier to eat healthily if you're active in your food intake. If you're grabbing things off the shelf willy nilly, it's a lot easier to end up with unhealthy choices and habits.
I'm not saying don't eat them. Hell, I'm going to make chicken sausage I bought for lunch. Just be aware of things.
Source: Had to take a bunch of nutrition courses over the past two years. Was inneresting.
kozar
(3,317 posts)LilBit LOVES Mac and cheese, if I bought the ingredients to make her a “pure” Mac and cheese, I would prolly be at about a buck and a half a serving and the time involved, to prepare, the pasta, sauce and all.
But a box of “processed” Mac and cheese can be as low as 30 cents a serving and 8 minutes to prep.
Given that,
All I can say is the box has very little real food in it.
Koz
Shermann
(9,062 posts)I haven't had the boxed version in years. But it is easy to prepare, and most other foods are more difficult.
Silent3
(15,909 posts)I’m pretty sure I know what you mean, but this terminology we all take for granted is actually a bit flimsy the more you think about, filled with many assumptions about what is and is not healthy that might not hold up to close scrutiny.
kozar
(3,317 posts)I’m talking buying the flour, the egg, making the pasta. No hard, but time consuming as well. “ real food”
Silent3
(15,909 posts)Does this tenuous distinction of being "real" necessarily mean more nutritious and/or always better for one's health?
Poison ivy is a lot "closer to nature" than any farmed crop humans currently eat, all of which are greatly transformed by generations of selective breeding from their wild predecessors, but I certainly wouldn't eat it poison ivy just because it's more "natural".
My point is that the "natural = good, artificial = bad" concept that often influences how many people think about food should at most be consider a crude rule-of-thumb, not an inviolable principle.
For instance, why is "grown in our earth" such a positive? We're now finding out that the traditional, pre-industrial way people have grown rice for centuries can introduce high levels of arsenic into rice. Arsenic is quite naturally present in many soils, yet that doesn't imbue it with healthiness in the least.
kozar
(3,317 posts)Responding to OP, in this conversation. I truly don’t know what your post means.
Koz
womanofthehills
(10,988 posts)This is now listed on many processed food labels now. Bio engineered what??
I would say corn syrup, seed oils, mega salt, MSG, polysorbate 80 etc are not going to make you healthy. Eat like most of us ate as kids - real food.
TwilightZone
(28,836 posts)The discussion about processed foods is nothing new. Nutritionists and others have been talking about the dangers in processed foods for decades, particularly ultraprocessed foods.
There's plenty of information available online, including the specifics you insist are lacking.
Start here: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/ultra-processed-foods/
Shermann
(9,062 posts)The real question is: how do we fix highly-processed foods?
I accept that salty and sugary treats will generally always be unhealthy. But these negative health effects seem to extend to ordinary pantry staples as well. I reject that this is unsolvable.
multigraincracker
(37,651 posts)Trader Joe’s and Whole Foods. We can’t be perfect, but we can all do better.
My big thing is, I only drink water, coffee and home brewed tea. I’m lucky to have great well water and I drink it all day.
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)How you would prepare food at home vs how a food processing company would do it.
When we talk about processed foods, it's shorthand for foods that have been prepared at a factory to be sold in a store. Especially with shelf-stable foods, the process to do that requires using some questionable preparation methods and adding some highly suspect ingredients that don't tend to be good for anyone.
Let's compare the process of making butter to that of margarine, to get an idea of the difference:
1. To make butter, skim cream off whole milk.
2. Chill the cream so that it's as cold as you can get it without freezing.
3. Put the cold cream in a churn to separate the solids (fat) from the liquid (buttermilk). Technically what happens is that the milk membranes burst so that the fat droplets can start clumping together away from the liquid. That process has a name, but I don't remember it anymore.
4. Once you have the fat well-separated from the liquid, you remove the separated fat clumps from the churn. Most butter makers add salt at this point, if it's used at all.
5. Use a press to squeeze out as much remaining liquid as possible
6. Once the butter is as close to 100% fat as possible, it gets packaged (my grandmother used parchment paper by itself; manufacturers tend to use paper and boxes), and put in the fridge.
That's it, and it's something any of us can do at home, if necessary. The process is that simple but can be time-consuming, which is why butter tends to be so expensive; however, it's strikingly free of weird chemical additives. The only ones you have to worry about are what went into the cows making the milk, and contamination that can come from dealing with live animals. Get cream from good sources and be scrupulous about sanitary procedures, and the chance of exposure to contaminants of any kind is pretty much nil.
Compare that process to making margarine:
1) Extract an oil using food-grade hexene and other solvents to get the most oil out of its source material. Manufacturers have to make absolutely sure that the temperature doesn't get too high (around 100F), or the hexene will become toxic to humans.
2) Add hydrogen gas via a nickel catalyst at high temperature and pressure to create a chain of fatty acids ("saturated" fat), so that the melting point becomes higher and more stable. For a long time, manufactures figured out that they could get this melting point by halting the hydrogenation process before it was complete. This is what created the dreaded transfat. Full hydrogenation makes the fat healthier for humans to consume.
3) Add glycerol so that the fatty chains form triglycerides, an important part in making smooth, spreadable fats. Any "nutritional" additives tend to get added here.
4) Run the mixture through charcoal to lighten its color.
5) Add dye to make it look like butter.
6) Send it to packaging. Usually squirting a bunch of it into a plastic container.
Little of this is a process you can do at home. You can't even get your hands on most of the chemicals involved, never mind the necessary machinery.
Which product would you trust more? Me, I trust the butter. I've made butter. I know what ingredients go into making it, and none of that includes hexene or hydrogen gas or nickel catalysts or dyes. Just cream, chilling and a churn.
That is the difference between a food made using a process, and "processed foods."
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)to an apple pie snack pastry to green apple-flavored candy, and everything in between.
I try to do my best to eat as close to the apple off the tree as possible, but of course it's almost impossible to not use some more highly processed ingredients in modern life.
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)All food gets processed to some degree, but the closer it is to its natural state, the less adulterated it is, and ergo the better it tends to be for you.
I can't eat potatoes but I can guarantee that if I cut up some at home and fried them, they would be far healthier than what's in a can of Pringles.
Potatoes cooked at home: Potatoes, some kind of high-heat oil, salt.
Pringles: Dried potatoes, vegetable oil, degerminated yellow corn flour, cornstarch, rice flour, maltodextrin, mono- and di-glycerides, salt, wheat starch.
Yeah, just what anybody could ever want with fried potatoes, some glycerides and maltodextrin. That sounds soooo healthy.
Ms. Toad
(38,637 posts)Hummus: Quick and easy to make from dried beans, lots of fiber. Pair with veggies. Add in additional flavors if you feel like it. I've been making it every other week or so. If you have a food processer it takes about 30 minutes (outside of cooking the beans).
Soup: Soups are generally quick to make, you can make veggie broth from scraps of fresh veggies. Add beans from your pantry. Use fresh foods if you have them - otherwise use frozen without added ingredients.
Rice and beans. Add fresh tomatoes (or canned/frozen salsa - which is easy to make). Ferment your own hot sauce from fresh peppers when they are available.
Figure out how to process your own foods in ways that don't require a lot of added ingredients. Can when fresh is plentiful (which creates shelf-stable food for winter). Freeze if you have a large enough freezer. Dry foods out to store for times when fresh isn't available.
I grew up canning and freezing in the summer when fresh was plentiful so we had food all winter. I'm less fond of most canned foods, except green beans, so I likely won't go back to that - even though it is easy to do. But I'm doing a lot more freezing (mostly tomatoes) and fermenting (hot sauce).
Play around with it. Figure out some quick easy recipes and just keep using them
The problem is that people are looking for cheap, pop it in the microwave, foods that can sit on the shelf until they want to pop them in and eat instantaneously. That convenience is only possible in a commercial sense by adding lots of unhealthy things, often by robbing flavor from the natural ingredients, so that they have to add flavor back in. But stores carry what sells, and convenience sells.
Ellipsis
(9,454 posts)
Meowmee
(9,212 posts)Like most cooked, frozen/ dry/ canned ready made foods, but not all. High fructose corn syrup should be avoided for sure. As well as too much sugar, meaning pure glucose or hfcs, salt, and certain fats. The main thing that can be bad for many are grains such as white grains, even whole grains, white wheat is the same as sugar, in fact it is worse than pure glucose, much worse. It acts very rapidly to turn into to sugar. Other things to avoid are some preservatives and artificial sweeteners.
Sugar itself is not bad, just too much of it. Healthy fats are ok. A combo of high carb from both grains, and sugar, and bad high fats is the worst. Fructose in fruits is better because it has fiber, and acts more slowly. You can find a lot of products like peanut butter, and jams that do not have sugar adde in, they just have the fruit juice, and the fruit. Unfortunately they usually cost a lot more.
However you are going to die no matter what you eat, even vegans/ vegetarians get heart disease, type 2 diabetes and cancer. I remember somebody on one of my social media accounts who had been a lifelong vegan eating the supposedly healthiest diet possible dying of cancer in his 60s. I remember someone telling me her sisters had become vegan and at first lost weight, but then they ended up just gaining it all back because they were eating higher carb due to being vegan, and eating too much. A vegan diet for many often does not provide a lot of protein, and does not make you feel satisfied. People have become very ill on that diet, including me.
You have to have a hereditary component for a lot of these diseases- for instance nobody gets type two diabetes simply from eating too many carbohydrates etc. and or weight gain. last I checked only 30% of people who are obese have type 2. They have to already have a genetic predisposition / a strong hereditary component etc., same thing for heart disease.
Also high blood pressure is a killer, causing kidney damage, and damaging, and clogging up vessels. Even people who are thin, and who do not to have hereditary vascular heart issues can have high bp, not be aware of it, or it isn't treated properly and that can cause clogged arteries etc.- check your bp to monitor it. And it is not always caused by high salt intake. Untreated hypothyroidism can also cause all of these issues, and many people are not properly screened for that.
Stinky The Clown
(68,952 posts)Are washed, ready to eat raw salad greens processed?
Is a salami processed?
Washed oranges processed?
Are waxed cucumbers processed?
Is an aged steak processed?
The fact is, all of that and so much more are processed foods.
Go for whole (un-fucked-with) foods and prepare your own meals. Think Mediterranean diet. Modest indulgences and an occasional frozen pizza won't kill you. You can make yourself, friends, and family nuts by becoming obsessed with this.
NickB79
(20,354 posts)Not all processed food is bad, but virtually all bad food is heavily processed.
KewlKat
(5,810 posts)So in my experience, foods in the perimeter are delis/bakery section, meats/poultry/fish, veggies and fruits, and dairy/eggs.
If you venture within the store, everything is highly processed in order to package and make the product shelf stable. So, these are the foods I try to avoid...I like to buy fresh fruits and veggies, fresh meat but have bought frozen, don't really buy much from the bakery area as I have celiac and then eggs and a bit of cheese.
I don't think they are referring to the "preparation/cooking" we do to make our meals, but to the stuff that is ready to warm up and eat.
Silent3
(15,909 posts)After all, baking, boiling, grinding, chopping, and mixing are all “processes”.
The processes we associate with the terminology “processed food” are pretty varied as well. Why should adding refined sugar be lumped in with adding salt? Why should using preservatives be lumped in with using hydrogenated fats?
betsuni
(29,078 posts)on the body. Okay if occasionally eaten, terrible if eaten daily because it's addicting and a lot of people's bodies can't take it.