Praying in the Capitol rotunda, Lauren Boebert stated that Jesus "went to hell in our place."

[riversedge]

Anyone know when this happened? Today??


Praying in the Capitol rotunda, Lauren Boebert stated that Jesus “went to hell in our place.”

Link to tweet

?s=20

[llmart]

1. Jesus went to hell to take the slot that was slated for her.

I think that's what she means.

If she wanted to preach, why didn't she become a minister? She could have saved us from having to hear every fart out of her ridiculous mouth.

[Midnight Writer]

79. She took stage lessons from Paula White. if you can stomach it, compare the two at live events.

[Celerity]

2. she is a fucking lunatic, a clear and present danger

[Effete Snob]

3. Is there supposed to be something remarkable about that?

Is it what she said, or where she said it that is supposed to be noteworthy?

In general, Christianity is the proposition that after presumably consigning generations of humans to Hell, God was unable to do anything about that until offering Jesus as a human sacrifice for selected future humans. Although it was not that big a deal since it required three days of Jesus’ time, out of all eternity.

As Easter approaches, Christians express their gratitude to Judas for making sure Jesus was able to carry out the entire point of his visit to earth.

Anyone is able to take advantage of this deal by engaging in ritual cannibalism during which they eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus.

[ExtremelyWokeMatt]

12. Remarkable delusion, that's all

It was basically an Iron Age Hollywood plot derived from the Greek/other traditions‘ trip through Hades. Fortunately there is technically nothing preventing people like that from actually getting a hell to comprehend/show/make them feel the pain they cause from their zealotry and reliance on the concept of human sacrifice to justify torture and the infliction of pain and violence.

[Effete Snob]

35. Joe Biden goes every Sunday

I agree with you, but one rapidly runs out of people for whom to vote.

[PJMcK]

34. Well stated

The whole thing is so ridiculous that I often wonder about people’s judgment and common sense not to mention scientific literacy.

A belief in things not provable is rather pathetic, frankly.

Just my opinion, of course.

[Irish_Dem]

41. I never learned Jesus went to hell when he died.

I never understood what the nuns meant when they said Jesus died for our sins.
Made no sense to me whatsoever. Right they said God offered up his only son for us.
Right, God makes Jesus a human sacrifice.

And then we eat the flesh of christ and drink his blood.

I was 8 yrs old when I told my mother the whole thing was crazy and I didn't believe what
the nuns were telling me. My mother was so shocked she didn't say a word.

[Effete Snob]

47. It's kind of the point

D’jever notice people with “John 3:16” on display at sporting events and whatnot? It is consider by some to be the most concise capsulization of what Christianity is.

“For God so loved ithe world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not kperish but have eternal life.“

Are you familiar with Passover? Ever wonder why Easter and Passover happen around the same time?

The entire point of the existence of Jesus was to bear the requisite punishment for the sins of mankind - previously atoned for by a Passover sacrifice - by suffering and dying on behalf of everyone else who would otherwise be punished for sins. It is the equivalent of having someone else oh your debts for you.

In exchange for this gift of salvation, you are then expected to fork over cash and vote Republican.

[Irish_Dem]

56. I thought God gave Jesus to humans because Jesus was a good person, an example and teacher.

So Jesus had to leave heaven and his father, God, and that was the sacrifice.

The dying I thought was about the persecution by the Romans.

The whole idea of someone else dying for my sins is abhorrent.
Goes against the idea of personal responsibility.

I would tell Jesus to butt the hell out of my karma.
He can deal with his own stuff, stay out of mine.

Right, but then I guess the theory is that you can hire someone to go to hell for you.

[Effete Snob]

86. Good person?

He comes into town, tells a woman to get him water from a well, and then calls her a slut.

He casts demons out of some guy, but then puts the demons into someone else’s livestock, who then drown themselves. He does not compensate for the lost animals.

On the way into Jerusalem, he sets a fig tree on fire because he throws a tantrum over it not having figs, and then he steals a horse.

He collected his followers by telling them to abandon their families and whatever duties they had to those families.

The entire time, mind you, he had access to all of God’s knowledge. Instead of healing a few random lepers in one small part of the world, imagine how much good he could have done by teaching basic hygiene and sewage treatment, much less any other medical principle that would have saved millions of lives. No, he kept that to himself, leaving countless persons through ensuing history to die from easily preventable causes. Why did he do that if he was so “good”?

There are lots of figures in history who were considered good people and who taught others to “be nice”. What makes Jesus exceptional in that regard?

[Irish_Dem]

91. Not the story the nuns told us.

Water into wine.
Feeding the hungry.
Trying to spread goodness.
The rest is fuzzy.

My adult take on jebus is that he wanted to reform Judaism.
He was not starting a new religion, but modifying an existing one.
He had a few ideas about modernizing his religion.
The power structure didn't like it and killed him.

Hundreds of years later, opportunists decided to start a new religion and used
him as the face of the religion. He was a marketing plan.

[Sky Jewels]

105. Building a religion

We are building a religion
We are making a brand
We're the only ones to turn to
When your castles turn to sand

[Irish_Dem]

107. Religion is one of the oldest and best grifts ever.

Not to dismiss people who really have a spirituality, which is totally different from religion.

[orthoclad]

125. The scapegoat

Very ancient fertility myth having to do with the rebirth of life in Spring. Eternal life via the cycles of the year.

Basically, in ancient agricultural societies, a Year-King would marry the Goddess/matriarch after last year's King was sacrificed, chopped up, and sown into the fields for fertility. Then a new Year-King would marry the matriarch. At some point an animal like a goat was substituted for the sacrifice. This myth shows up in modern stories like The Wicker Man and songs like John Barleycorn Must Die, and, of course, Christianity, which co-opted the pagan myths when Rome created it at the Council of Nicaea.

This is oversimplified and likely inaccurate somewhat, but hey, the Old Testament was full of vegetable, animal and human sacrifice. That's why they call them Abrahamic religions, after Abraham's sacrifice of his son. Something weird about the desert environment, I think, that installed patriarchy as monotheism.

Personally, I like the line about love being the whole of the Law.

[Irish_Dem]

129. So basically the whole story taken from pagan mythology.

That would explain why it seems so disjointed and nonsensical when transposed into christian doctrine.

[orthoclad]

135. Yes, it looks like a syncretic religion

cobbled from many ancient sources, then codified by Rome at the Council of Nicaea, source of the Nicene Creed. The christian calendar clearly copies the pagan calendar.

One thing that always struck me: the Abrahamic religions, what we call monotheism, are "mono" only in that they deny the divine female principle. God is the ultimate Patriarch. All the other religions of the area had goddesses, but not the Abrahamics. However, when Rome took it over, suddenly we have lots of female saints and Mary worship, er, "veneration". That made it more palatable to Romans, but she had to be a virgin and not fully realized, even in motherhood, a kind of castration. It seems people really want female divinity as well as male, though, and female divinity will sneak in.

I was writing a piece on my experiences as a devout Catholic child. If I post it, should I ping you?

[Irish_Dem]

136. Yes I would love to read it. Let me know when you finish with the piece.

I loved the Blessed Mother and the female saints when I was young.
I am still a Mary person, I pray to her all the time.

Yes I find it interesting how much of the pagan beliefs turned into church dogma.
And how women got canceled out. Mary's only claim to fame was birthing a male god child.
And even that birth wasn't her doing, an angel handled it.

I also got a dose of Irish pagan mythology when I was young from my Irish grandmother.
All the folklore about the little people, leprechauns, rainbows, pots of gold. And how to deal with them if I got
a glimpse of them. I was fully prepared.

Some years back there was a family reunion and a huge rainbow appeared.
Every single person at the reunion was 100% certain our beloved, deceased aunt
who was a nun, had come to visit us personally.
So a family where Catholic and Irish mythology are combined.

[orthoclad]

137. I was in the St Dominic Savio Society

Extreme Mary worship.

Heh, I once saw the end of the rainbow. Sharp summer shower, sun hit the receding rain front and the rainbow came down in the street in front of me. I went home and found a scholarship check in the mail. Gold at the end of the rainbow!

[Irish_Dem]

138. I have not heard about the DS society or extreme Mary worship.

All four of my grandparents were immigrants to his country from Catholic countries.
But none of them were that religious. Cultural catholics.
I wonder if the extreme Catholicism is an American thing?

I joke that the only mention of God in my Irish family is when people are cussing.

[orthoclad]

139. Something about him accepting martyrdom

over "impure thoughts". I searched a while ago, nothing about the DS Society.

[Irish_Dem]

140. Wow that is such a neat rainbow story.

Yes.

According to my grandmother, the pot of gold and good luck are at the end of the rainbow which you must look for.

The leprechauns however guard the gold and good luck. So you have to know how to get the leprechauns to
cough up the goodies.

However, this information is secret, to be passed down from grandmother to granddaughter only.

But some how you knew the secret.

[orthoclad]

142. The musta whispered it

to me in my sleep.

[Irish_Dem]

143. ....

Of course they do that.

[aka-chmeee]

100. Back in the day, before I stopped giving a damn about conforming,

I remember the Apostles Creed making that assertion.

[Irish_Dem]

104. I most have not registered that part.

There was so much BS in the stuff we learned.

And the nuns didn't mention christ going to hell in class.
I would have shaken my head in disbelief.

[BumRushDaShow]

111. It was in the versions of the Apostles' Creed

The Apostles’ Creed: Its History and Origins
Logos Staff 7 min read January 18, 2022


(snip)


The creed as it exists today consists of three main articles, like the Old Roman Creed divided according to a Trinitarian arrangement. The text is as follows (Kelly, Creeds, 369):

I believe in God the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth;
And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord,
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born from the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead and buried, descended into hell,
on the third day rose again from the dead,
ascended to heaven, sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty,
thence He will come to judge the living and the dead;
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the remission of sins,
the resurrection of the flesh,
and eternal life.
Amen.

Disputed phrases

Grudem argues that the phrase “He descended into hell” is a late addition to the creed. This phrase is commonly understood as a reference to the “harrowing of hell,” which is based on one interpretation of 1 Pet 3:19. The phrase is first mentioned by Rufinus in the late fourth century, and does not appear in any other versions of the creed until AD 650. Rufinus himself notes that the clause “is not added in the Creed of the Roman Church” (Symb. 18), though he includes it in the version of the creed that was accepted by his own church of Aquileia (see Symb. 3). Moreover, Rufinus makes clear that he did not believe Christ literally descended into hell, but rather that the phrase merely meant He was buried. The Greek form of the creed has ᾅδης (hades), which can mean merely “the grave” rather than a place of punishment. Thus a more accurate version would be, “He descended into the grave” or “He descended to the dead” (Grudem, “He Did Not Descend,” 102). This understanding of the phrase is reflected, for example, in Question 50 of the Westminster Larger Catechism.

(snip)

https://www.logos.com/grow/the-apostles-creed-its-history-and-origins/

The original (and current) Anglican Book of Common Prayer had/has that although when it was updated by the U.S. Episcopal Church, they removed the "hell" reference.

[Irish_Dem]

113. We didn't say this prayer much at all.

We said:
-Hail Marys
-Our Fathers
-Prayers before dinner and bed.

This prayer you printed was a hard and big prayer.
I only went to catholic school grades 1-5.
Then posted overseas to a Dept of Defense school overseas.
No prayers there.

[BumRushDaShow]

116. Episcopalians used the Nicene Creed more in the liturgy

although the Apostles' Creed might have been used for more solemn occasions/masses.

[Dorian Gray]

118. Catholics too

Our church says the Nicene Creed for about 80% of the year. During Lent, however, our parish switches to the APostle's Creed. It always throws me for a loop bc I don't have it memorized.

[BumRushDaShow]

121. It's that overlap

the more "solemn" holiday periods.

The Episcopal and Catholic masses are almost identical save for some minor liturgical differences.

And doing those Creeds, need to remember when to have that knee to hit the ground at the right time is important.

[Dorian Gray]

117. It's right there

in the Apostle's Creed:

I believe in God,
the Father almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried;
he descended into hell;
on the third day he rose again from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.

Amen.

[Autumn]

4. He didn't go to hell in my place but her book says he did go to hell.

[Elessar Zappa]

5. Standard Christian (at least Catholic) doctrine.

The Apostles creed states that during the three days between his crucifixion and his return, that he descended into hell. It was supposedly to free the righteous souls who lived before Jesus’s sacrifice. It never made much sense to me. https://au.thegospelcoalition.org/article/the-apostles-creed-7-he-descended-into-hell/

[Effete Snob]

23. Pretty much standard everywhere else, too

[PJMcK]

40. 3 days?

Friday, Day 1: Jesus is tried, convicted and executed. He died late in the afternoon. Presumably, Jesus got to Hell after he died, say around 5:00 pm

Saturday, Day 2: Supposedly, Jesus spent the day in Hell after he died as a sacrifice to atone for humans’ sins.

Sunday, Day 3: When Mary went to Jesus’ tomb early in the morning, the tomb had been opened and Jesus’ body was gone, (never mind the angel). Let’s say Jesus was resurrected around 5:00 am before sunrise.

Therefore, Jesus spent about 36 hours as Satan’s subject. The story takes place over 3 days but the time Jesus spent in Hell was only half of that time. Not much of a sacrifice for an eternal being!

On the other hand, maybe that’s all God thinks humans are worth.

[Effete Snob]

58. Ever spend a weekend in Philadelphia?

Same thing.

[PJMcK]

62. Try Flint, MI (n/t)

[Effete Snob]

76. That's why Jesus went to Cancun afterwards

And buried the story near, uh, Rochester.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

83. That was Ted Cruz who went to Cancun after the Texas apocalypse.

[Ilsa]

61. The Apostles Creed recited in some churches uses the phrase

" He descended into Hell..." Not all denominations include that phrase, if memory serves. Some creeds, some churches, omit that phrase.

[Retrograde]

95. There are a couple of different creeds

used in the Catholic church, at least back in the day when I attended Catholic schools. There's the Apostles' Creed, which is a simpler version that is taught in grammar schools, and IIRC is used in the recitation of the rosary. Then there's the Nicene Creed, which is recited during the Mass and is essentially the definition of what Christianity is, as of the Council of Nicea. The Apostles' Creed states that Christ "descended into Hell" then rose on the 3rd day, which is not the same as 3 days after. The Nicene Creed just states that he died and was buried, and then rose again. I've always thought of the Apostles' creed as the beginners' version, and the Nicene as the grown-up version.

I had to look up the Apostles' creed, but after all these years I can still recite most of the Nicene - in Latin!

[Ilsa]

112. Nicene Creed seems more like prose, more detailed in

the statement of belief. My experience is it is read more during Holy Communion.

[Retrograde]

114. Are you Roman Catholic?

The Nicene Creed is (or was, it's been decades since I've been to Mass but I had a rigorous Catholic upbringing, complete with theology) part of the Roman Catholic Mass, read every day, just after the gospel and before the Offeratory, or between the Mass of the Catechumens and the Mass of the Faithful. I have an intellectual interest in the history of the Catholic Church - and my father was educated by Jesuits.

[Ilsa]

124. No, always protestant. nt

[dembotoz]

99. correct

when i saw the post it was like well yeah that is what is taught.

[2naSalit]

6. He went to Hell?

I guess I missed that part.

[Johnny2X2X]

9. They just make things up

I find that the bulk of Christian politicians have no idea what the Bible says.

[Elessar Zappa]

13. The Catholic Church (not sure about Protestants but I think it's the same)

teaches that during the three days between his death and ressurection, he went to hell and released the righteous souls who lived before his saving sacrifice.

[Demsrule86]

16. My daughter went to Catholic school and not once did I hear that.

[Elessar Zappa]

18. It is part of their beliefs.

Read the Apostles Creed. The Catholic version says he descended into hell. https://au.thegospelcoalition.org/article/the-apostles-creed-7-he-descended-into-hell/

[2naSalit]

19. Thanks...

Seems to be when they really went full scream towed the abyss.

[Demsrule86]

21. I went to Mass so I got the 10% tuition reduction...and not once did I hear that...

[edisdead]

29. 5th article of the apostles creed.

Maybe your church didn’t recite it?


Edit to add it isn’t in the nicene creed which some faiths recite instead.

[2naSalit]

46. I sang in choirs...

For a couple decades and performed the Mass more times than I can count, sat in many a homily and still, I don't recall that part.

Check reply #42.

[Effete Snob]

85. Did you ever sing Handel's Messiah?

32. Air

Soprano or tenor
But Thou didst not leave His soul in hell; nor didst Thou suffer Thy Holy One to see corruption.

This is sung in churches and other venues every year and specifically mentions Jesus’ Lost Weekend.

D’jever read the Catechism:

https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1R.HTM

Do you like gladiator movies?

[2naSalit]

108. Oh...

A number of times.

[H2O Man]

68. Perhaps you were

not paying attention. It is indeed something that the Catholic mass addresses every year near Easter. Not to suggest that their belief is true or false, as I am not a fan of the Catholic church. I was forced to go as a kid, and even from a young age, though that it was a bunch of shit.

[edisdead]

27. its in the apostles creed.

it is right there.

I grew up on that bullshit.

Edit to add it isn’t in the nicene creed which some faiths recite instead.

[H2O Man]

71. +1

It's interesting to read some of the responses here, especially those who think because they are not aware that the Catholic church teaches this, that it doesn't. They should count their lucky stars that they are ignorant about that church.

[Dorian Gray]

119. It's true

I've linked elsewhere, but the Apostle's Creed is accepted theology, and it clearly states that Jesus descended into hell before ascending into heaven.

[Irish_Dem]

43. I never heard that in Catholic School.

They only said he was buried in some sort of rock for three days.

[Effete Snob]

87. One last reference for you

The catechism - direct from the Vatican:

https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1R.HTM

Christ Descended Into Hell

[Irish_Dem]

92. Good god. Either the nuns left out that part or I blocked it out.

Jesus going to hell.
Nope.

Son of God, perfect person, going to hell.
Kids wouldn't buy it.

Also the idea that your own father would have you killed and send you to hell, nope.
Kids don't like that idea either.

No wonder I went home from school one day at age 8 and basically told my mother it was all BS.

[Effete Snob]

110. You were correct.

[wnylib]

115. I grew up in the Lutheran Church and

it was taught to us in Sunday School and in confirmation class. Although I don't remember it being said in so many words, the idea seemed to be that death, Hell, and Satan were interconnected. The teaching was that Jesus conquered death, Hell, and Satan by his resurrection.

It is part of the Apostle's Creed that we were taught.

[tblue37]

20. It's called the Harrowing of Hell.

[Demsrule86]

24. Right and it is celebrated in the Ukranian Catholic church and Evangelicals in my experience hate

Catholics. It is not accepted orthodoxy which is why I never heard it when I taught in a Catholic school or when I attended mass. I am not Catholic just to clarify...but I was interested in my younger years...could never accept infallibility or their rules on contraception or abortion.

[Effete Snob]

38. Someone even took pictures

Here’s Jesus, as seen visiting Hell…

[Effete Snob]

22. Have you ever been a member of a Christian denomination

With minor variations, this summary of belief is used in a wide variety of denominations.

Note the part in bold:

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

*that is, the true Christian church of all times and all places

[2naSalit]

31. When I was a kid...

I had fundamentalist Baptists and Seventh Day Adventist and some other Baptist group foisted upon me through my entire childhood, the holidays were hell for me on that part. A couple other religions had serious influence in my childhood though I was not to know of them... Judaism and Catholicism, the two religions of my parents' families.



It was like the great religion wars, back in the 50s and 60s, everybody had to belong to a religion and it had better be xtian.

So I had to read the Bible and recite stuff from it and listen to endless tales of god and jesus and miracles that can't happen anymore since jesus went away except once every couple three centuries when a saint shows up or something. I was implored to choose a sect, I refused because none of them made sense and I had had enough of them controling my life, sending me down a path of subservience and abuse. I had a different, self respecting plan so I left all that behind.

But even with all that, I just don't recall that part.

[Effete Snob]

33. What did Jesus do between Good Friday and Easter?

He was crucified on Friday and rose from the dead on Sunday.

Did anyone in your experience have a notion of where he spent the weekend?

Clearly, he wasn’t in Heaven, since that’s where he goes on Sunday.

So, did he have a bender in Vegas that weekend or what?

It’s an extremely common Christian belief that he accepted the punishment for all the sins of humans - ie by actually suffering in Hell on behalf of people who would otherwise be sent there.

[2naSalit]

42. From what I recall...

I was given the impression he was either in heaven and his dad told him he had to come back for short stop and then go back, or he was just in some in between space where he was like floating in suspended animation or a jar of formaldehyde like in a horror flick... I could never quite get the gist of the whole sequence, nobody was clear about it and I wasn't allowed to ask questions.



I never connected that he would ever end up in hell because he wasn't evil.

[Irish_Dem]

50. Exactly. How could Jesus go to hell when he was perfect, the son of God.

And dying for other's peoples sins, made no sense whatsoever.

Right we weren't allowed to question the nonsense we were taught.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

52. He went there to let souls out.

[Irish_Dem]

59. What was Jesus thinking? He sounds like the perfect enabler.

Bad people should be in hell.

What is the point of being good, when Jesus gives you a pass for being bad?

What is the point of the Ten Commandments if Jesus just lets you off the hook?

[Effete Snob]

60. Ever notice how these "Christians" behave?

Despite the fact that, until now, you have managed to evade the overwhelming majority view of what Christianity is about, you have now arrived at the problem we as a society face over the fact that a good 30% (give or take) of the population believes they have an omnipotent invisible friend who has already forgiven them for every shitty thing they have or will ever do.

This is what makes some of them very dangerous.

[Effete Snob]

53. You nailed it right here

“I never connected that he would ever end up in hell because he wasn't evil. “

That WAS THE POINT!

He was sinless. Pontus Pilate found him not guilty at trial.

The lamb sacrificed at Passover is spotless.

Hebrews 10:12

“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God”

When John the Baptist meets him, he says in John 1:29

“ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.”

Why does John the Baptist say that? Surely you have seen Jesus referred to as the “Lamb of God”. How does a lamb take away sins? By being the sacrificial lamb for Passover.

[2naSalit]

54. See?

BTW, thanks for the citations!

[Effete Snob]

57. That's what the initials are for

I’m Nailed Right In. Say so, right on the sign.

[emulatorloo]

55. Raised fundy Baptist in Texas. Nobody ever taught us this. Doesn't surprise me Crazy Boebert went to

a Crazy Church though. Thanks for the background information on this, really appreciate it!

[PJMcK]

45. It's a pretty important part of the Christian dogma!

Surprising if you weren’t taught it as it’s the whole point of Jesus’ crucifixion.

Otherwise, why did Jesus go through the whole ordeal?

[Irish_Dem]

49. Jesus went through the ordeal because he was persecuted by the Romans.

[Effete Snob]

66. He could have simply zapped them with a death ray

So, hang on, he could heal the sick, turn water into wine, raise people from the dead, and do anything at a David Copperfield magic show, but why was he powerless against the Romans?

[Irish_Dem]

69. Because his god the father wanted him to burn in hell for earthlings.

Jebus was just following orders.

No wonder people are crazy. They are fed bat shit insanity as children.

[Effete Snob]

73. Yep. You got it.

Please come forward and have the man stick Jesus on your tongue.

[Irish_Dem]

80. I have a queasy stomach and drinking blood and eating flesh didn't sit well with me.

My mother had to reassure me it was only wine and bread wafers.
All totally symbolic in nature. OK mom, sure.

[Effete Snob]

90. Never eat Jesus on an empty stomach

Otherwise, that’s the only thing you have to digest, and it will end up being digested and becoming….

[Irish_Dem]

93. You always eat Jesus on a totally empty stomach.

You had to fast from the night before if you were going to receive communion the next day.

That is why catholics like to stop at the bakery or donut shop after mass.
Kids are HUNGRY. Biden did it right after he was elected and the press gave him
a hard time for it for some reason.

[Dorian Gray]

120. I'm 51, so no spring chicken

and we just have to fast for an hour before receiving communion. Never had to fast the whole night before.

[Irish_Dem]

128. I'm quite a bit older than you are.

And that was the rule when I was quite young and where I was living.
Later it was changed to one hour yes.

We also were not allowed to eat meat on Fridays.

[Dorian Gray]

131. I still don't eat meat on Fridays during Lent

But only during Lent. We still have pizza fridays. lol

[Irish_Dem]

132. We could never eat meat on Fridays.

I once accidentally ate meat on Friday at a friend's house who wasn't catholic.
I was just a kid and thought I was going directly to hell.
My mother explained you don't go to hell for just an honest mistake of forgetting.
I was so glad that God was going to cut me some slack.

[Dorian Gray]

133. If your mother was chill enough to teach you you weren't going to hell

where did you learn that?

I mean, I had some friends who said some crazy things about who would go to hell, but I thought they were just ignorant. But I never learned that from the adults in my life. (From home or from CCD.) Most of what I learned was that God loved everyone and desired for sinners to come home to him most of all.

Got lucky that I was a part of a more hippy Catholic church group. Guitar mass and everything. lol

[PJMcK]

77. That's not correct

The Jewish hierarchy was opposed to Jesus’ teachings because he was upsetting their power structure. It was those Jews who brought Jesus before Pontious Pilate demanding he be executed.

Pilate wanted nothing to do with this affair and challenged his accusers to provide evidence of a crime worthy of capital punishment. They couldn’t but remained an angry mob so Pilate accede to their demands, washing his hands of the whole thing.

Over the millennia since, many Christians have blamed the Jews for Jesus’ death and it is the root cause of antisemitism. Throughout history, this theme has dominate parts of Christianity. The Crusades and the Final Solution are but two examples of this anti-Jewish behavior.

The Romans, who kept mostly meticulous records, didn’t think anything of Jesus. This is demonstrated by the fact that there are almost no records of Jesus’ existence in the Roman records.

Actually, the whole story of the Sanhedrins (sp?) is found in the Gospels.

[Effete Snob]

81. Change "almost no" to "no"

There is one extra-biblical mention of Jesus, and there are reasons to doubt it.

Josephus makes a passing mention that there were people who believed in such a person several decades after his purported death.

Just like the entire story of Moses, there is no support for the reality of any such person, who may have been a composite of lots of self-proclaimed prophets of the time. The most accurate depiction of that environment in media is actually The Life Of Brian.

[PJMcK]

98. Yeah, we're on the same pages

There are a couple of other references about Jesus in the Gnostic Bible.

Nonetheless, it's mythology.

[Irish_Dem]

82. I'm just telling you what the nuns told us.

[PJMcK]

97. Before or after they rapped your wrists with a ruler?

Just kidding.

Have a good week. It'll probably better than Trump's.

[Irish_Dem]

101. ....

I never got it but the boy seated next to me did all the time.

Yep our week has to be better than Trump's is gonna be.

[orthoclad]

126. I've heard people call Jews "Christ-killers"

in all sincerity, like it was a simple fact.

And yes, there are no historical records that such a person or these events happened.

But the whole story sure sounds like the ancient sacrifice of the king (see my post above).

[PJMcK]

127. The Jesus story is a mash-up of a number of religious myths

It's all such a scam.

[orthoclad]

141. The archetpes behind the myths

are worth examining. A lot of the solar and fertility religions show how food-insecure early agrarian societies were.

[treestar]

134. which is strange, because if the Jews did

not do as they did, Jesus could not have died for their sins and they could not be saved. So they should have been grateful to the Jews - and Judas.

[2naSalit]

51. From the way I was told...

He went through all that because people are sinners and he had to show us that we had to believe in him so much that this was how he proved it so nobody would forget.

Seriously, not a religion scholar though I have had plenty of teaching I had to to endure, including memorizing passages. I even tried to get into it for a while.

Please don't be upset, I'm not a religious person and have no plans for it in the future. Not understanding the intricacies or main points to a belief system is not a crime outside of that belief system; I understand that in some belief systems it is a crime but that's not here, in this country. I have no obligation to believe anything, and so I don't.

[PJMcK]

70. Don't worry, I'm not upset

I’m an atheist but I’ve had a great deal of Christian and Biblical education and training.

For me, religion has nothing to offer. Everyone else can make their own choices but I draw the line when someone’s dogma is forced into my life.

[2naSalit]

75. That...

Is where I'm at. Have whatever you believe but there's a line when it impacts me and my life.

[tinrobot]

7. He went to hell because he was "woke?"

Just guessing.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. In some versions of Christianity, this is what they believe.

[Demsrule86]

14. It is made up and not biblical.

I have gone to many types of churches as hubs and I moved a great deal and we picked our churches based on the congregation ...how nice they were, did they minister to the poor...did they respect LGBTQ. Now we go to the Episcopal church which is all those things...not one church ever said Jesus went to hell and it is not in the bible.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

17. It's an early church belief based on 1 Peter 3:19-20 and recited in the Apostles Creed.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

[Effete Snob]

26. It is part of Episcopal doctrine

Note the minor language change in this version of the Nicene Creed to “he descended to the dead”. Gee, to what place of the dead does one descend to?

https://www.episcopalchurch.org/what-we-believe/creeds/

The notion that Christ suffered Hell to atone for the sins of mankind is hardly unusual, and is the entire point of being a Christian, as opposed to simply being a decent person without the superstitions.

[Demsrule86]

10. Clearly she is ignorant...Jesus did not got to hell and if you believe he is now seated on the

the right side of God after appearing to the disciples to console them and leave them with the word.

[Effete Snob]

28. Ever heard of the Episcopal Church?

Since you mentioned it above, maybe you would be interested in what the Episcopal Church has to say about it…


https://www.episcopalchurch.org/glossary/harrowing-of-hell/

The medieval English term for Christ's descent to hell and victory over Satan. Christ's descent to hell or the place of the dead after his death on the cross is mentioned or suggested by several NT sources, including Mt 12:40; Acts 2:24, 31; Rom 10: 7; Eph 4: 9; Col 1:18; and possibly 1 Pt 3:18-19, 4:6. The traditional language version of the Apostles' Creed affirms that Jesus “descended into hell,” and the contemporary version states that Jesus “descended to the dead” (BCP, pp. 53, 96).

[unc70]

65. Methodists removed "descended...", later restored it

Methodism is a spin-off from the Episcopal/Anglican tradition. I was raised within that tradition, now represented by the United Methodist Church and whatever the recent breakaway anti-gay churches call themselves. Most of the litany Methodists used had been adapted from the Book of Common Prayer. The phrase "descended into Hell" was omitted by Wesley; that was the way I learned it 70 years ago. The phrase was restored during the mergers which produced the UNITED Methodist Church (which has now become much less united).

[Emile]

11. So if he went to hell in our place we don't need religion.

[Mosby]

15. Except only Christians believe that.

You see what you did?

[Effete Snob]

32. That is indeed what some beleive

If the entire point is simply “be a nice person”, there is nothing particularly interesting about a religion that simply tries to encourage people not to be assholes.

So, some people develop this idea of Christianity as “believe in God and be good, and you won’t go to Hell” as a sort of carrot and stick approach to getting people not to be assholes.

What Christianity brings to the table is the idea that people are inherently shitty and can’t be good enough on their own. Therefore, because God can’t simply pardon sins, for reasons not stated, Jesus had to be offered as a sacrifice to take punishment for humans.

I’d be fascinated to know what it is that you believe is the point of the Good Friday/Easter observance, but leaving that aside, you did hit on one of the problems of actually believing in Christ’s sacrifice - that it settles the matter of sin and punishment once and for all.

For that reason, if you want to hang on to a following, you have to introduce the notion that access to that forgiveness is either mediated through various church rituals or officials, or that this forgiveness is only given out to a chosen set of persons who were predestined to receive it, in order to keep them guessing if they really are in the fold.

[Irish_Dem]

48. Right so we can do whatever the hell we want, Jesus gives us a pass?

[Effete Snob]

63. You are indeed starting to understand these people

Folks who do not understand what a good swath of Christians believe always wrongly think that they are being “hypocrites” for supporting Trump, along with a cavalcade of corrupt politicians and religious leaders.

Have you not realized this is the POINT of their religion?

[Irish_Dem]

64. What I learned from the nuns when I was 8 y/o is that religious people seem crazy.

Many decades later, my thoughts were accurate.

[Effete Snob]

72. Bingo

What boggles my mind is how we have this bizarre cultural trope in which religious people are treated as if they are more trustworthy or reliable, when my observation has been the complete opposite.

The whole ritual or how most people are sworn in as witnesses in court:

“Here’s a book of nonsense. Please touch it and say you’ll tell the truth.”

We should use the Guinness Book of World Records, since at least that one has some standards on what they allow in.

[Irish_Dem]

78. One of my aunts was a nun and she was fabulous.

In Irish Catholic families the youngest female is sent to a convent at an early age.
My aunt left home when she was about 9 years old and spent the rest of her life as a nun.
She went on to get advanced degrees in a teaching order.

She was funny, smart, modern, loved her nieces and nephews to pieces.
When she was with us, she talked about us, not herself.

The interesting part is that she NEVER talked about God, religion, being better because she was a nun.
Humble, low key. We only learned about her many high accomplishments at her funeral.

The Irish people I knew were not very religious, didn't parade around about it.
And for god's sake didn't pretend to be better people because of it.
The only time god's name was mentioned was when they were cussing.

This whole "holier than thou" stuff seems some sort of American aberration.

[Sky Jewels]

103. Yup.

When I was a kid, I always got really weirded out when I found out someone was super religious or a clergy person or something. Everything related to religion made me feel mildly nauseous, including the look and smell of churches and Bibles.

[Irish_Dem]

106. When I was young, most catholics I knew were not that religious.

It was more of a cultural thing than religion.

I remember a few people who seem oddly religious and asked my mother about them.
She said they were converts, who were usually religious, not like regular catholics.

I had an uncle who was a priest and aunt who was a nun.
And they were good people, but not very religious either.

Not at all like Americans today who are hyper religious.

[Bayard]

30. That's a new fairy tale on me

And I grew up being whacked with the Baptist bible.

[Judi Lynn]

36. She's trying to prove publicly her god has infinite patience.

The prayer could use a lot of editing, and the "musician" some music lessons!

[Maeve]

37. She's right and she's wrong

He didn't go there to be punished as the rest of us might be, but to free the "good" people who lived before his time (if you want to follow Dante's understanding of the harrowing of hell) or to exercise power over death, several different versions of the idea of "he descended into hell(or to the dead) in the Apostles' Creed (also noting that some Protestant groups just leave that part out and say it only means that he truly died)

He died in our place, but didn't "go to hell in our place" whatever version of Christianity...

[Hotler]

39. We'll have to bring in a Navajo elder to smudge the place after that.

Bad juju be gone. Hell, I need a shower after reading that.

[Trenzalore]

44. In some Christian doctrine Jesus went to hell during his 3 days in the grave

He also resurrected the Jewish Patriarchs upon his resurrection

[Effete Snob]

74. Then, for the Mormons, he went on an American tour

[ananda]

67. I'm interpreting "our place" as Boebert's house.

Yep

[Vinca]

84. So much for the separation of church and state. What a whackadoodle. She should be

handling snakes in a backwoods church somewhere instead of being a member of Congress.

[MineralMan]

88. She's just quoting The Apostles' Creed.

Says right in it that Jesus "descended into Hell..."

I don't believe any of it, so I'm not really bothered, but a helluva lot of Christians recite The Apostles' Creed. A pretty common belief.

[debm55]

89. Mineral Man, I was just going to add that it is the Apostles' Creed. Said it every Sunday at Mass.

[Scrivener7]

94. Did he, Lauren? Or was he there putting the "reserved" sign on your table?

[Initech]

96. Hey MAGAs, this is our government, not your church. GTFO and STFU.

If you want to live in a country ruled by religion, Saudi Arabia is that way ------->

[Sky Jewels]

102. This is like someone telling me that Persephone went to Hades for me.

It's the same level of mythology and fairy tales.

[kairos12]

109. Sound like Jesus went to her bar.

[betsuni]

122. I had no idea Jesus went to hell. Sounds like he went to the immigration office and changed his visa

[Meowmee]

123. I'm going to ignore that loon, and comment on the history of this myth instead

As the story goes, I vaguely remember this from some paintings too…


The “harrowing of hell” refers to what Christ did when he descended to Hades or hell between his death and his resurrection. The early church believed that after his death Christ descended into hell in order to rescue the souls of the righteous, such as Adam and Eve. Jesus descends and breaks down the doors of hell, unbinds the prisoners and leads the just to heaven.

In ancient paintings from the Eastern Orthodox Church, and in similar icons still used in Greek and Russian Orthodox churches now, the art depicts Christ standing over the broken gates of hell, angels binding Satan and Satan crushed under the gates of hell, while Christ pulls out two figures representing Adam and Eve who have been imprisoned because of sin.

https://www.al.com/life/2022/04/did-jesus-descend-into-hell-after-his-death.html

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/2013/03/harrowing-hell/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell

https://www.rct.uk/collection/406114/christ-breaking-down-the-gates-of-hell

[roamer65]

130. What an utter whack job.