Question re the debt limit: what would happen if Biden issued Executive Orders to agencies

[pnwmom]

telling them to pay their bills, and citing the Constitution?

Fourteenth Amendment, Section 4: The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-14/section-4/public-debt-clause#:~:text=Fourteenth%20Amendment%2C%20Section%204%3A,rebellion%2C%20shall%20not%20be%20questioned

Obviously the House would impeach him. But then the Senate would fail to convict him.

And meanwhile, the bills would continue to be paid.

What part am I missing?

[brooklynite]

1. What would the bills be paid with?

The Government can print money; the Executive Departments don't have access to it.

[pnwmom]

3. The government doesn't pass out paper money to anyone, and yet it manages to pay its bills. nt

[Ohio Joe]

2. Interesting idea...

I know if I tried to keep using a card that was maxed out, it simply would not work. The card would be rejected and the transaction would not happen.

That’s a person though… I suspect the analogy is not a good one though, it’s just a dumbed down version the right has pushed for ages now.

I don’t know the answer to your question but it is a very good one.

[Beastly Boy]

4. I believe the power to borrow and pay bills belongs to Congress alone.

Article 1, Section 8, US Constitution:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-1/section-8

[pnwmom]

5. Okay, but Congress doesn't issue checks to Social Security recipients, etc.

Isn't that done by the administration?

And Congress DID pass bills covering SS, Medicare, etc.

So the debt limit law contradicts all the other spending laws.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

11. Those checks and all other spending is because Congress authorized it

The Executive branch does not have the ability to spend money that is not appropriated by Congress.

[pnwmom]

12. Right. And the money WAS ALREADY appropriated by Congress. Now it's time to pay the debt

Congress already appropriated.

We're not talking about new debt. We're talking about debt that's already been incurred.

[phoenix75]

13. Mint the trillion dollar coin ...

Problem solved.

[onenote]

15. But aren't those checks backed up by money in the US Treasury

You seem to be advocating that the government pay its bills with rubber checks.

[pnwmom]

16. We haven't operated under the gold standard for a long time. nt

[onenote]

17. Not at all what I was saying.

We do operate with real money. You know, taxes and borrowed money and all that. There is actual money behind the checks the treasury issues. And if there is no money to back up those checks .... well, that's why not raising the debt ceiling would be catastrophic. Pretending there is money when there isn't won't solve the problem.

[pnwmom]

18. The Federal Reserve decides how much money to print.

So if they don't want to wreck the world economy, they can ignore the artificial debt limit -- which the R's freely ignore whenever an R is President -- and print more.

[phoenix75]

19. The debt ceiling is a manufactured nothing burger.

The federal government has run a deficit every fiscal year since 1970 (with 4 exceptions as I recall) and yet here we are in 2023 doing fine. Deficits don't matter. The debt ceiling hand wringing is all smoke and mirrors. Until Congress decides to do away with it, the trillion dollar coin would solve this "fabricated problem."

[phoenix75]

6. The "trillion dollar coin"?

[pnwmom]

14. More on that here.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/debt-limit-crisis-why-people-wont-stop-talking-about-the-trillion-dollar-coin-185523355.html

[tritsofme]

7. There is the risk that new debt issued above the ceiling could be invalidated by the courts

Which would cause an adverse market reaction.

It might someday be the least bad option, but it’s also not a get out of jail free card.

[Girard442]

8. It could come down to 5 people on SCOTUS...

...deciding whether or not to kick off Great Depression II.

[pnwmom]

9. thanks!