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Florida schools to let veterans teach without degrees
Link to tweet
https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2022/07/26/florida-schools-to-let-veterans-teach-without-degrees/
Florida has 9,000 teacher vacancies it needs filled before the summer comes to a close and the new academic year begins. The state’s Department of Education announced last week that military veterans can now fill those roles.
“Our public schools are really at a crisis level seeing this massive number of vacancies,” Andrew Spar, Florida Education Association president, told ABC Action News. “In 2010, there were 8,000 graduates from Florida’s colleges and universities becoming teachers. That number was between 2,000 and 3,000 for the year that just ended. That’s a significant drop-off.”
Veterans will now receive a five-year voucher that allows them to teach in the classroom without typical accreditation or the necessary education requirements that other certified teachers must possess.
The move is part of an $8.6 million statewide initiative to provide careers and workforce training to veterans and their dependents.
“We owe the freedoms we enjoy as Americans to our military veterans, and I am focused on ensuring Florida is the best state in the nation for those who have served to find great jobs, start or grow businesses and support their families,” said Florida Governor Ron DeSantis in a statement. “Business is booming in Florida, and employers are looking for the leadership skills, training and teamwork military veterans bring to the workforce.”
*snip*
There is just so much wrong with this......... But ultimately it helps their quest to destroy public education.
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snowybirdie
(6,687 posts)This program includes veteran's spouses. What a slap in the face to professional teachers! Pay them more and they'll get the professionals they need.
onethatcares
(16,992 posts)get deathsentence out of the classroom and let the teachers teach.
Ain't no way I'd work for someone that wanted to know what political party
I belong to.
I can just imagine how great the schools will be when sgt shultz gets a nasty attitude
and starts treating kids like reccruits. 
underpants
(196,502 posts)It tickles me how people think veterans are like recruiting posters. I was in the Army 30 years ago, does that give me some special teaching ability? Does it mean I can bypass some gun laws (concealed carry in some states)?
Bettie
(19,704 posts)I don't know, "military adjacent"? WTF?
kimbutgar
(27,248 posts)Have people who graduated just from high school and didn’t even go to college teach children. And will those so called teacher had background checks? I had to get fingerprinted and get a background check to get my teaching credential.
What could go wrong? If I was a parent of a school age child I’d have to move out of that state.
Phoenix61
(18,829 posts)That doesn’t mean they are all law abiding citizens. How many were in the capital on J6?
snowybirdie
(6,687 posts)The wives.
TheBlackAdder
(29,981 posts).
It will be like the movie Kindergarten Cop, but the Arnie character will wipe out the classroom.
.
kimbutgar
(27,248 posts)Those little ones can really test ones nerves!
Johnny2X2X
(24,210 posts)This is a joke, unless they're accredited teachers, they shouldn't be teaching any more than someone should be performing brain surgery because they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Mr. Sparkle
(3,711 posts)
Hekate
(100,133 posts)… are from professionals who don’t want to be treated like dirt by parents and the state?
SWBTATTReg
(26,257 posts), an educated guess, that teachers are getting tired of the hostile teaching environment, going to other states, etc.).
I don't blame them. To have someone overlooking your shoulder overseeing your every word, when in the past, a well-constructed Instructor's Guide would have done the trick handsomely. That's what I used in my classes that I taught, and we always kept them updated too.
I never had to deal w/ such nonsense as they do in FL, other states that are just as crazy. And it's amazing too, especially in this day and age that teachers are starting to finally pull down somewhat decent pay...
Emile
(42,293 posts)
genxlib
(6,136 posts)Policy - Suggest teachers should be armed to protect students from guns
Counterpoint - Teachers aren't qualified to be armed protectors
Counter-Counterpoint - Hire soldiers
FloridaBlues
(4,669 posts)This is beyond crazy and insult to the teaching profession. Who put in the time to get qualifications to teach.
Watch for other states to follow.
70sEraVet
(5,482 posts)They weren't trying to be mean -- its just all they knew. The only thing the kids learned was to get away from their father as soon as they could.
I don't imagine that this scheme will turn out any better for the kids. And it will certainly drive off any remaining dedicated teachers.
Chainfire
(17,757 posts)I don't know why we just don't let inmates teach, it would be cheaper than veterans. We have a lot of inmates with time on their hands...
People in Florida that have the financial means will be sending their kids to private schools with real teachers. As always it is the poor and struggling lower middle class that will get the shitty end of the stick. The dumber the kids are when they leave school, the more likely they will become Republican voters.
Totally Tunsie
(11,854 posts)and they do a good job. We adopted one of their students, and she's a joy.
https://www.vetdogs.org/av/dogprograms/prisonpuppyprogram.aspx#:~:text=In%20this%20special%20program%2C%20inmates,dog
snip
Training
Puppies are transported to the prisons at 8-9 weeks old in groups of 3 - 4. A primary and secondary handler is then paired to work with each puppy. Puppies live in the handler’s cell and house-breaking, crate training, and basic puppy skills are started immediately. The vast majority of each pup’s day is spent outside the cell, attending classes, programs, observing recreational activities and going to meals in the chow hall along with their handlers. An America’s VetDogs instructor travels to each prison facility once a week providing instructing on how to train the dogs during a two hour class.
Samrob
(4,298 posts)
Fullduplexxx
(8,626 posts)The state’s Department of Education currently expects veteran candidates without degrees seeking teaching positions to have at least 60 college credits and a baseline 2.5 GPA. They need to pass the subject area examination for bachelor’s level subjects, as well.
In addition, their service needs to amount to 48 months in the military, with an honorable or medical discharge. If hired by a school, they are required to be supervised by a teaching mentor.
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)come out screaming “Oh NO, UNQUALIFIED VETERANS TEACHING!”
We only want Veterans when it suits us….
Defense.
FEMA support.
Natural Disaster support.
Staffing hospitals in crises.
International Humanitarian missions.
Reliable voting block.
Holding the line and keeping T***P from becoming a dictator.
But, teaching?? Oh my God!
NOOOOOOOO!
Let’s demonize veterans who want to teach. That’s super helpful. DeSantis will love the negative Democratic backlash against veterans.
*some sarcasm*
Ms. Toad
(38,643 posts)My first 7 years of education was in a one-room country school. My teachers, past 1st grade, had not attended college. It was an unmitigated disaster. I was teaching myself math at recess using books my parents bought because by the 4th grade my math abilities were more advanced than my teacher with a high school degree. My father had already explored what it would take to get a teaching certificate so that he could become a teacher in the local school district to ensure that his children would be able to attend a competent school. Discrimination was rampant - 3 of my sibilings were native americans, and were blamed by the teacher for anything. My first act of civil disobedience was when I marched home from 6th grade and refused to return until the principal came out to address the teacher punishing my brother for pulling the hair of a girl he was nowhere near, who was told to shut up when she tried to explain it wasn't my brother, her hair wasn't pulled - she merely scraped her leg on the slide.
Opposing allowing random veterans to teach has nothing to do with demonizing veterans who what to teach - it has to do with requiring competency - at least subject matter, and preferably to teach. None of that is inherent in being a veteran - or a veteran's spouse gives you the ability to understand either substance, or how to teach.
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)I will let my comments stand.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,956 posts)Defense.
That is what veterans are taught to do. They are not taught to teach.
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)From doctors to lawyers and infantry to highly specialized and technical skills and everything in between.
Too many people are living in a “Military Bad” mindset. I’m not saying you.
Too many people think the “military” is full of Full Metal Jacket Gomers who walk around slack jawed looking for something to shoot at. It’s just a learned bias.
There are thousands of teachers teaching right now who are veterans, about half being females.
If the picture accompanying the article wasn’t a white guy in uniform with a student, but a young Black woman, would attitudes change? How about an Asian, or Muslim?
I myself went through two very long technical courses at Fort Gordon. One of them was over a year long at 6 hours a day, one a little longer. About 3/4 of my instructors were active duty Army. They were SMEs (Subject Matter Experts).
Does a teaching certificate guarantee a competent teacher? Of course not.
Florida is in a crises with a need for teachers.
Criticizing DeSantis on this is the wrong hill to die on, IMO.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,956 posts)Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)obamanut2012
(29,369 posts)Ms. Toad
(38,643 posts)most are not and, as noted above, fewer than half even have a college degree - and this proposal expressly allows veterans (and spouses) without a college degree to teach.
I don't have any objection to creating alternate paths to teaching. I am a career educator (11 years in secondary and 9 years in post grad, with quite a bit of other informal teaching experience in the mix). I hold a state teaching certificate - and it was the easiest/most worthless of my three majors (or equivalent, since although there wasn't a specific major offered in teaching, the hours required by the state were between the number of hours required for my physics major and my math major.) The certificate doesn't make me qualified to teach. What makes me quailfied to teach are (1) knowledge of the subject matter (computer science, physics, math, swimming, taxation, any subject reqiured to pass the bar exam) and (2) a fair amount of natural ability to break complex concepts down, make connections between similar concepts, hear where the remaining confusion is, and address it and (3) decades of experience startingwith tutoring when I was 12 years old. My teaching certificate is merely the entrance fee to teaching in a public school.
But NOTHING in merely having served in the military (or being married to someone who served) qualifies one to teach. This isn't a matter of allowing SMEs to teach courses in which they are experts. It is putting warm bodies - most of whom are not even remotely qualified in the subject matters taught in schools, let alone making any assessment as to teaching ability.
If there is a teaching crisis that needs to be filled with non-certified teachers, set up reasonable criteria for temporary licensing. Open it up to anyone who meets the criteria, not just veterans - or those married to veterans. While I am sure there are qualified veterans, merely being a member of the military (or being married to one) isn't inherently a qualifier.
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)I am keenly aware of the situations we are in as a country regarding the problems we are facing. I fully understand the misgivings people have regarding DeSantis’ program to work veterans into the teaching profession, especially without going through the normal channels.
I commend you and others for teaching. I have always thanked the many educators here on DU, and I appreciate everyone who chooses to educate others.
obamanut2012
(29,369 posts)Take some easy written test that isn't an actual professional boards test, then I can fly a jet for five years?
Be a tank commander?
Sapper?
Medic?
JAG criminal defense attorney?
SEAL?
Infantryman/woman?
Just stop it. I am so tired of this bootlicking of vets and LEOs in this country -- they are not better than anyone else. Full stop. And, I have loads of military vets in my family whom I respect, but not because of that.
even Captain America isn't qualified to be a teacher.
Congrats, for joining the military. I'm not sure why the hero-worship is heaped on this particular job selection. This whole "fighting for our freedom" is a bunch of propagandist BS. We haven't engaged in a war for freedom since WWII.
kcr
(15,522 posts)As long as they're qualified.
pinkstarburst
(2,020 posts)mean competency in another.
Someone who has trained as a surgeon is not qualified to fly fighter jets.
Someone who has trained to fly fighter jets is not qualified to captain a submarine.
Someone who is qualified to captain a submarine is not qualified to be a dentist.
Someone who is a veteran is not automatically qualified to be a teacher. Teaching is a profession that requires years of specialized training and a college degree. Teachers have to pass subject area exams to prove competency.
There is an inherent arrogance in the minds of many due to the fact that they attended school themselves as students and have a child's perspective on a school classroom that teaching is something "that anyone can do." This is largely due to the fact that skilled, trained professional teachers make it look easy. Untrained incompetents have no business in a classroom.
spanone
(141,628 posts)Whoever teaches must be qualified to teach.
ironflange
(7,781 posts)
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts) 
IcyPeas
(25,475 posts)
keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)I was an instructor in the military. Maintaining discipline in a classroom of people who are sworn to defend their country is vastly different than 20 or 30 kids. A spoiled, disobedient 8-year-old brat with parents who can threaten you with a lawyer is very much different.
obamanut2012
(29,369 posts)A spoiled, disobedient 8-year-old brat with parents who can threaten you with a lawyer is very much different.
I'm worried about having someone teaching K-6 who has no idea about early childhood education and development, and how to teach the three Rs, etc., let alone everything else.
keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)Arazi
(8,887 posts)Or high school students who are determined to “break “ their teachers with obnoxious and provocative behavior.
Can FL teachers be armed?
I’m half joking when I say I’d be super worried about a soldier-teacher losing their shit at school
dalton99a
(94,133 posts)albacore
(2,747 posts)Not picking on vets... I am one, and I taught high school for 30 years.
Next, it will be Firemen and then Sanitation workers. Both are heroes in their own ways, but does that mean they can teach?
Ed courses are not really very effective... if you ain't got it... no course or courses can give it to you, but those Psych and Soc courses broaden your knowledge base in preparation for the battlefield.... ummm.... classroom.
albacore
(2,747 posts)Just taking his daughter to work was a disaster.
CRK7376
(2,227 posts)Both my parents were college professors, Dad was a Biologist, Mom English Lit.....me, I needed a break from school, I was not ready for college, all I wanted to do was become a paratrooper or EMT/Paramedic. After completing my initial enlistment. I came home and was ready for college. Math and science were my worst subjects, so I stayed away from those challenges and realized I was not cut out or capable or interested in the hard sciences. What i enjoyed was history so I took several history classes and realized that i enjoyed learning and talking about history. History pushed me into teaching. I joined the Army Reserve just before starting college. The recruiter got me and the money was good and I was promoted to Sergeant. One weekend a month did not hurt my social life and that Army check was enough for my truck payments. First semester of college was alittle rocky but I survived it. The following fall I decided I wanted to leave the enlisted ranks and become an officer so I signed up for ROTC, I only had to do the 2 years of the Senior program as I was a prior service NCO. Pretty quickly I figured out I wanted to continue serving in the military, but I also wanted to teach high school. I became a 2nd Lieutenant before I finished my Teacher Education Program. After graduating from college Uncle Sam sent me to Arizona to complete my Basic Officer Course. I returned home got married and began teaching and coaching in a rural high school system.
First year of teaching was challenging, I didn't teach anything....I was hired to run the In School Suspension program. A year and a half after running the ISS program my former high school offered me a History position that I quickly jumped on. I taught mostly American or World History which I enjoyed. I also had to teach Civics and Economics(hated Econ, loved the Civics portion). Coached Cross Country and Track and one weekend a month I was off doing Army stuff gaining rank. We started a family and began to struggle. Teaching does not pay well. We barely broke even each month. Luckily for me, I had lots of opportunity to do short training missions, 1-4 weeks over Christmas Break or during the summers, with the Army. That kept us from drowning. When our third child arrived we knew I was going to have to leave teaching. Financially we were doomed. At this time in the late 1990s Uncle Sam was desperately trying to get more people especially officers and mid level NCOs back in the service. I resigned at the end of the school year and reported to Ft Bragg in August of 1999. I was a brand new Major and my base salary doubled immediately what I had been paid as a teacher. Then jump pay, housing and food allowance kicked in and we were not struggling financially anymore. 911 happens and 8 months later I am in Afghanistan for a year, after a short break home I get sent to Korea without my family for a year where I completed my Masters in Education, got promoted to Lieutenant Colonel and sent back to FT Bragg/Liberty, earned a 2nd Masters degree in Military Management(hated that program) enjoyed my work, close to family again and was starting to think about retirement and returning to the world of a high school history teacher. Uncle Sam had other plans for me. I was selected to attend the Army War College and completed my 3rd Masters Degree in Government and Strategic Studies and was promoted for the last time to Colonel. Spent my last five years in the Army at Fort Jackson and retired in March 2015 with a total of 38 years in the military and 21 of those years I was on Active Duty.
I immediately began looking for a teaching position and found one about an hour from home. Spring of 2015 found me teaching high school history in a rural system. Boy had the world of education changed.......definitely not what it was when I left. History is history.Changes....when I left to go back on Active Duty, I had been in a classroom for one year that had a white dry erase board instead of the traditional blackboard. First computer in my classroom was an Apple IIGS, when I had left teaching back in 1999, I had one Microsoft computer in my classroom with really slow internet.....2015 I enter my first classroom in 16 years and every student and teacher had a school issued laptop, pandemic follows with Zooming/MSTeams...not a good year for students, teachers and families but we got through it.....Now I am about to start my last year as a teacher. I retired from the Army with 21 years of Active Duty and 17 in National Guard and Army Reserve units and I will retire having spent 21 years teaching and coaching high school history in Title 1 or rural high schools in NC. So the bottom line of this rant is that Soldiers can teach. They are smart, adaptable, used to overcoming challenges, motivated and mission focused. Teaching is not what it was when I started and it is time for me to go. I am giving one more year. 21 years of Active Duty and 21 years in a high school classroom. 42 years of public service is enough for me. Will these Veterans employed by school systems across Florida be successful as teachers.???....some will, some will not. It is tough in the education trenches but fantastically rewarding. My College school of Education classes were an absolute waste of time. Do I know my subject, yes and I and many members of my extended family have served as educators and soldiers. I have lived though alot of history and I bring that to my classroom daily. My last job in the Army was where we train young men and women to become soldiers. We instructed, we taught and we trained 1000s each year. My Sergeant Major (Senior Enlisted Advisor) was in the process of getting his teachers license in Virginia, he now teaches math and coaches baseball. This is my last year in a public high school classroom. I've given my best and am proud daily of my service as a Soldier to our nation and to my community as a teacher. Don't laugh at the idea of a Soldier as a teacher. Many will excel, many will fail, but they will serve and be a role models for many children be they in elementary, middle or high school.
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)KentuckyWoman
(7,401 posts)She does have a bachelor. No education courses. She had to pass a rest to be approved then has 5 years to finish all the work to be official. I don't know all the exact verbiage.
Went to something at her school and the kids clearly liked her. Talked to someone in the school board who said about 10% of the district's teachers either completed or are in the same program. It seems to have shaken things up in a good way. More kids are staying in school and going to college.
TheBeam19
(344 posts)a day care so parents and guardians can go to work.
This was clear during the height of the pandemic, pre-vaccine, with the “open the schools!” argument from some people, many of whom also opposed masking in schools. They just need a place to dump off their kids so they can get to work.
If keeping schools open and having enough teachers was really about education, these Republican governors would have been putting more money into education long ago.
Sancho
(9,205 posts)