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DFW

(60,189 posts)
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 05:35 AM Mar 2022

Knock me down with a feather, the German government proposed something sensible on the gas price!

The price of a liter of gasoline here rose to €2.36 over the weekend. That is the equivalent of about $9.83 a gallon.

Even the Germans, used to high pump prices, are starting to complain. One of the reasons the price is so high here is that there is an illegal (under the German constitution) tax on the price of gasoline at the pump. There is the price of gas itself, plus the oil tax, which is about three times as much. Several years ago, the government decided to stick VAT (Value Added Tax) of 19% onto the TOTAL price. That means they were adding 19% not only to the gasoline, but also slapping a 19% tax on the oil tax, which was already 75% of the price. A friend of ours is a judge on the tax court here, and I asked him if that wasn't unconstitutional, as the German constitution forbids double taxation (the same reason a wealth tax failed here--it seems that 80 years ago, a certain ethnic group was saddled with that, and the post-war Germans decided their constitution would never let it happen again). Our friend said it was absolutely unconstitutional, but no one had ever filed a suit against it. If such a case came before him, he would rule against it immediately. No one ever has.

But at these unprecedented high price levels, there is a lot of grumbling from the voters of all parties. There is serious grumbling even from within the parties except the far right AfD, who thrives off of discontent with the government. Their voters hate it, so they love it.

Someone from the government (I forget who) just proposed lowering the VAT on the pump price from 19% to 7%, a rate at which certain articles and services are VATaxed. It may seem like a minor deal, but it would lower the pump price by about US$1 per gallon. Since the tax shouldn't be there in the first place, maybe this is a first step toward getting it eliminated altogether, although expecting THAT much common sense from an EU government is probably up there with Little Red Riding Hood getting saved from the Big Bad Wolf.

I have always disliked the VAT, since it hits the lower income people the hardest, and it is like government heroin. It is very addictive, and once hooked, every government always seems to need more of it. But this is a small step in the right direction. The government can always raise the oil tax any time they want. Taxing the tax is over the top in my opinion, and even a small step toward reversing it is a step in the right direction. Mind you, this is NOT a done deal, just a proposal--but it is a good one in my opinion.

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Knock me down with a feather, the German government proposed something sensible on the gas price! (Original Post) DFW Mar 2022 OP
Sounds promising! SheltieLover Mar 2022 #1
It helps the bloated German bureaucracy stay afloat DFW Mar 2022 #2
Sounds like qpukes dreams SheltieLover Mar 2022 #3
I find it incredible as well. DFW Mar 2022 #5
That is astonishing! SheltieLover Mar 2022 #7
So who was the "certain ethnic group" that was saddled with double taxation after the war? RussellCattle Mar 2022 #4
80 years ago, 1942, was not after the war. It was right in the middle of it. DFW Mar 2022 #6
For those in doubt about German history in that time period Wikipedia is your friend. Ford_Prefect Mar 2022 #8
In my state we have double taxation on gasoline as well MichMan Mar 2022 #9
I don't think it is constitutionally forbidden there DFW Mar 2022 #10

DFW

(60,189 posts)
2. It helps the bloated German bureaucracy stay afloat
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 06:04 AM
Mar 2022

They must have two appointed-for-life "civil (they aren't) servants" for every one needed--unlike France, which has three, or Greece or Italy, which probably have five. Their ex-members of Parliament get perks for life, and members of their parliament--get this--are allowed to serve on the boards of big companies WHILE THEY ARE SITTING MEMBERS OF THE GOVERNMENT!!!!

Remember the four European legal systems:

The French system: everything not forbidden is permitted
The German system: everything not permitted is forbidden
The Russian system: everything is forbidden, including that which is permitted
The Italian system: everything is permitted, including that which is forbidden

DFW

(60,189 posts)
5. I find it incredible as well.
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 06:14 AM
Mar 2022

Apparently here, it has never been questioned, since it has been allowed for so long. When I mention how shocked I am, some Germans say, "yeah, now that I come to think of it, you have a point..." but others say, "yeah, what's the big deal?" That they can't see it's a big deal drives me nuts.

It's the Republican dream, right?

 

RussellCattle

(1,928 posts)
4. So who was the "certain ethnic group" that was saddled with double taxation after the war?
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 06:12 AM
Mar 2022

DFW

(60,189 posts)
6. 80 years ago, 1942, was not after the war. It was right in the middle of it.
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 06:15 AM
Mar 2022

Right about the time of the Wannseekonferenz.

Does that help?

Ford_Prefect

(8,614 posts)
8. For those in doubt about German history in that time period Wikipedia is your friend.
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 06:47 AM
Mar 2022
The Wannsee Conference was a meeting of senior government officials of Nazi Germany and Schutzstaffel (SS) leaders, held in the Berlin suburb of Wannsee on 20 January 1942. The purpose of the conference, called by the director of the Reich Security Main Office SS-Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich, was to ensure the co-operation of administrative leaders of various government departments in the implementation of the Final Solution to the Jewish question, whereby most of the Jews of German-occupied Europe would be deported to occupied Poland and murdered.

******************
History
Legalized discrimination against Jews in Germany began immediately after the Nazi seizure of power in January 1933. Violence and economic pressure were used by the Nazi regime to encourage Jews to voluntarily leave the country. The ideology of Nazism brought together elements of antisemitism, racial hygiene, and eugenics and combined them with pan-Germanism and territorial expansionism with the goal of obtaining more Lebensraum (living space) for the Germanic people.[2] Nazi Germany attempted to obtain this new territory by invading Poland and the Soviet Union, intending to deport or exterminate the Jews and Slavs living there, who were viewed as being inferior to the Aryan master race.[3]

Discrimination against Jews, long-standing, but extra-legal, throughout much of Europe at the time, was codified in Germany immediately after the Nazi seizure of power on 30 January 1933. The Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service, passed on 7 April of that year, excluded most Jews from the legal profession and the civil service. Similar legislation soon deprived other Jews of the right to practise their professions.[4] Violence and economic pressure were used by the regime to force Jews to leave the country.[5] Jewish businesses were denied access to markets, forbidden to advertise in newspapers, and deprived of access to government contracts. Citizens were harassed and subjected to violent attacks and boycotts of their businesses.[6]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference

Does not some of this sound curiously similar to certain GOP dogma?

MichMan

(17,151 posts)
9. In my state we have double taxation on gasoline as well
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 07:33 AM
Mar 2022

Sales tax is paid by the consumer on the total retail price per gallon, which includes state and federal gas taxes.

DFW

(60,189 posts)
10. I don't think it is constitutionally forbidden there
Tue Mar 15, 2022, 09:43 AM
Mar 2022

In Germany, it is expressly forbidden by their constitution.

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