A little reality re arming teachers and other bad ideas

[mcar]

My beloved spouse of 33 years is a public HS teacher in rural FL. He's got 2 years left to retirement - a point to remember because he's grandfathered in to a more "generous" (ha!) pay scale.

Please, take a moment to see what new teachers in this state earn as salary. The FL DOE says the average new teacher salary is $45,000/year. Sounds pretty good, right? It's at least $10,000 lower here. Then subtract the "benefits." For my family of 3, health insurance alone costs us $1400/month, with a high deductible p!an. No surprise there's a huge teacher shortage in this county and around the state. At my SO's school alone, they need 15 or more substitute teachers every. day. Yet subs get a grand total of $70/day.

The district, one of the best in the state, is tragically underfunded. They ration copy paper to teachers, who often have to supply their own, along with supplies like tissues and paper towels, which I buy by the load for him, even though we don't have the funds ourselves.

2 years ago, a student brought a gun into school and attempted suicide in his English class. The teacher got the other students out and the Deputy resource officer saved the kid's life. SO was locked in a closet with 20 kids for hours, texting me cause he didn't know what was going on.

You can imagine the same sad scene, parents rushing to get their kids but barred from getting near the school. Hours of anxiety.

That teacher never came back to her job. The trauma, and her guilt at not being able to help this young man, shattered her.

So we're going to arm these underpaid, overworked educators? Who will pay for the guns, ammo and training? Where will the guns be kept? On their persons? Do they get extra pay for it?

Oh, and then there's the idea that teachers can quickly put kevlar on students during a shooting incident....Along with getting students to safety, barring the door, etc.

Teachers are teachers, not soldiers. I have no doubt my husband would throw himself in front of his students to save them. It is who he is. It keeps me awake some nights. We didn't sign up for this.

[VMA131Marine]

1. $1400 per month for an HDHP is outrageous

It sounds like the school district isn't covering any of the cost. For the exact same type of plan for family of 3 in CT, I pay about $300 per month after my company's contribution.

[mcar]

2. The district covers about $300/month

The policy sucks. I cannot imagine how non professional employees can afford it.

[VMA131Marine]

5. That's really awful

But I think there is a measure of sexism to this. Teaching is a profession with a high percentage of women who, the argument will go, get insurance through their husbands' policies so it doesn't matter if the school offers crap insurance.

[Eliot Rosewater]

3. GOP wants teachers to reflect what they see in old westerns. You know, movies.

Teachers back in the "good ole days" were all women, spinsters mostly (sorry, not my word but it is one they would use and it is a misogynist word for sure), who were paid next to nothing because they were seen as part-time jobs.

I say women because that is what they see in movies.

They dont want educated people, god no. And they have no respect, NONE for teachers or education.

[mcar]

8. Yes

What is the life of a teacher worth?

These are the same foul, vile people who happily called teachers "leaches on society" and worse during Gov Voldemort's 1st term when he and his R minions waged an all-out assault against public education.

[Caliman73]

4. The idea pushed by the NRA, of the "good guy with a gun" is ridiculous.

The reality of mass shootings is chaos and even trained officers may sometimes over or under react. If I were armed, in a situation where there was mass violence going on, my mindset would be to get out and get my loved ones (family, friends, etc...) out of the situation as quietly and quickly as possible. The only possible way that I would reach for any firearm that I might have, was if there was a very clear indication that the shooter was in the room where myself and people around me were hiding, and there was no other alternative. Even then, there would be a major possibility of freezing or missing, even at short range.

The scenario of "shooting it out" with the "bad guy" is a fantasy of people who have never been around gunfire. I have in my youth, been in situations where there were shots fired and I can tell you, that my ass was on the floor scrambling for cover and to get the hell out of the situation. Had I had a firearm, I would likely not even remembered and would certainly not have used it, except to hide the pee stains.

Now, would I want to have a firearm with which to defend myself in a "worst case scenario"? I would say, yes. However, for me, the teaching that sticks in my brain is, "NEVER ACT WITH A GUN, IN ANY WAY THAT YOU WOULD ACT WITHOUT ONE".

As you said, teachers are not soldiers and they should not be responsible for defending against shooters. We need to work to prevent shootings not to repel them.

[hunter]

10. Once the guns come out everything is FUBAR.

I speak from personal experience and maybe with a little PTSD.

Gun violence is nothing like the movies or video games.

I've been in rough circumstances, some of my own making, but never one where me holding a gun might have improved outcomes, and it's not that I'm incompetent with firearms.

In a world where cops and other people supposedly trained to use guns frequently fuck up, what kind of hell is this where any fool can buy one?

U.S. gun culture is disgusting. This is the twenty first century. It's time for it to be gone.

The second amendment is an ugly thing form an ugly world where slaves counted as three-fifths of a person. It's bullshit.

Gone love is a public health issue, like smoking or drunk driving. It's nothing we should celebrate.

[mcar]

15. Thank you for this perspective, hunter

It's like the adults think we live in a video game or thriller movie.

[Ms. Toad]

6. Not to mention . . .

That teacher never came back to her job. The trauma, and her guilt at not being able to help this young man, shattered her.

So we're going to arm these underpaid, overworked educators? Who will pay for the guns, ammo and training? Where will the guns be kept? On their persons? Do they get extra pay for it?

It is shattered people who take up guns in the first place.

As a former public school teacher, who witnessed the ferocity with which corporal punishment was inflicted on students by some of the administrators and fellow teachers, I certainly do not want those same individuals in possession of guns.

Teaching in public school is, in many respects, a thankless job. There are many, many dedicated people who would give their lives for their students. Count me in that camp. There are, however many others who are trapped in teaching because they thought it was what they wanted to do - before they hit the classroom door, who are unsupported by the administration, and who are literally attacked by their students (that happened to me twice in my 11 years in public schools - once directed at me, the other I was an unintended victim).

I have only hit another human being intentionally once in my life. It was a year when I had 5 separate preparations (we were supposed to be limited to 3) 150 students, and I had already cut my standards to the bare minimum and was still clocking over 100 hours each and every week just to keep up. As I was heading to my classroom through a narrow tunnel that perhaps 10% of the 2800 students had to pass at class change, some students were blocking the tunnel and others started shoving. My instinctual reaction was to start swinging to protect myself from the shoving back and forth - and the real possibility of falling and being trampled. Fortunately there was enough bodily contact my blows were indistinguishable from the pushing and shoving. But I was mortified. It was clear I was burned out and needed a break from teaching. I first threatened to call in sick for the last class of the day every day (I certainly needed a mental health break). Fortunately my supervisor supported my request for a reduction in teaching load, so I was able to shed one class the next semester. But that incident was a clear sign to me it was time to leave.

I left public school teaching nearly 3 decades ago - knowing that I would never be able to return (with 11 years and a masters degree, I cost twice as much as an out-of-the-box teacher). I had options. I had saved enough money to take time off. I had a spouse who had a job that paid reasonably well. I had abilities and interests in lots of other things, and loved school - so re-education and career change was an option.

But it wasn't an option for many of my peers. And far too many of my peers embraced, rather than abhorred, violence in one form or another. I'd hate to have public school teachers who felt they had no options other than a dead-end, thankless job, unsupported by their administration, attacked by students on a semi-regular basis, and who think violence is a solution, in possession of guns in the classroom. Frankly, I think it is those teachers who would be attracted to the option.

[mcar]

16. It is a thankless job, Ms. Toad

But SO loves it. And he's really, really good at it. He cares about these kids and the world we're in.

Plus, for many years here, it was good. He has accomplished so much. We can't go anywhere here without him running into former students who loved him. He's a really good math teacher and sponsors several service clubs.

[Ms. Toad]

18. I taught math and computer science

It was thankless. Largely because I cared enough to try to work with the students between ages 18 and 21 who were still struggling to pass essentially 5th grade math, rather than just phoning it in. So they kept giving me more - my 50% pass rate (in those classes) was higher than most of my peers'.

Now I teach at a public university, and not a day goes by without someone thanking me for what I do. Still working crazy-mad hours. But knowing i'm helping my students makes all the difference in the world.

[mcar]

19. He teaches math, too

So many former students approach him, current students invite him to their grad parties.

True story: I had a business meeting last week with a former vendor I hadn't done business with in years. But we had a great relationship. She's newly engaged to a local guy in his 30s. She offered to provide lunch to our meeting.

Told me that she asked her fiancée to make us sandwiches (we're very causal with our meetings). She said, "you have to make the best sandwich you ever made in your life. It's for Mr. D's wife." SO had been her fiancee's favorite teacher!

It was a lovely sandwich!

[Ms. Toad]

21. I get that from my current crop of students.

My class has grown from 31 the first time I taught it 4 years ago to 72 this year (3/4 of the graduating class).

But only a handful from my years of public school teaching - I was teaching in the inner city - lots of students in and out of the school. My 50% pass rate was due to (1) students who couldn't behave well enough to stay in my class (or school) enough days to pass (2) 67% turnover from the first day of the year to the last and (3) students who truly struggled with math.

After I left teaching, I subbed for a piece of the year in the (public) school my daughter eventually graduated from. My worst day as a sub in that school was better than my best day as a regular teacher where I taught for 11 years.

[bluestarone]

7. i fully agree that teachers should not be armed and expected be soldiers!!

I'm not sure if your talking about my thread or not, but I DID NOT suggest putting Kevlar on each student. (sorry if you thought that was my idea). I have a daughter that teaches in mid school also. My thought was to have 1 (ONE) suit the teacher would have access to in his her room (and only on volunteer bases) ABSOLUTELY NO GUNS. With the right plan i feel the teachers would have a better chance of controlling the bad situation.

[mcar]

9. I appreciate your comments

But there is no right situation. One kevlar? For whom? The teacher to throw him/her self over a few kids. Kevlar doesn't cover head, IIRC. And your standard issue teacher can't cover 20+ students.

[bluestarone]

11. it is a bad situation for sure

but i do believe this for the teacher and a good plan. would be better than nothing and no plan. it's a start is all i'm saying.

[mcar]

12. No, it is not a start

It is capitulation to some warped reality that mass shootings in schools just has to be a thing.

No! No! No! Our kids are worth more than that. Our teachers and staff are worth more than that.

[ProudLib72]

13. Have you asked him if he could teach while armed?

I know I couldn't. I just could not, in good conscience, teach with a deadly weapon strapped on my person. Maybe I would eventual get used to it, but I shouldn't have to. It's intimidation. It demonstrates a complete lack of trust in the students. It is a major barrier to the relationship between student and teacher.

[mcar]

17. I know he wouldn't

He is even more liberal than I am,and that's saying something. I also know he would jump in front of a gun to save his kids - him with his bad hip. .

MSD High has hurt us both so much.

[ThoughtCriminal]

14. Right-wing gun nuts have delusions

The whole "good-guy hero with a gun" seems to be a daily fantasy for almost all of them.

[Cha]

20. I'm crying at your eloquent,

poignant OP, mcar.

You have already been there; having a loved one in a shattering crisis situation at school, because of guns. You know personally how these greedy ideas of the NRA, to train and arm teachers, and put Kevlar on everybody, in lieu of Sensible Gun Laws, will not work. Nor should Teachers be responsible for putting their lives on the line.. even though they have been.

Mahalo for sharing your story with us. It's always good to get someone's real life experience to feel closer to what's going on.

I use to live in a rural town in Florida back in the day.. in Levy County. So I can imagine the setting somewhat.

To all those who are helping with March For Our Lives!

[mcar]

23. You were just north of us, Cha!

We're in Citrus County, we used to go to Levy, to Manatee Springs StatePark,all the time when our kids were young.

The saddest thing is that so many local teachers vote Repub. Against their own interests and those of their students. So frustrating!

[Cha]

26. Hey Aloha!

I remember all the Springs around Bronson, Florida.. such a pretty environment.. my kids had fun at Blue Springs.

I love the geographical aspect of Florida.. I'm one who doesn't mind hot steamy weather.. but the State Gov now is awful for the average Peep.. paradise for the very wealthy.

One of my sister's lives in Gainesville, Florida still.. 36 minutes from Bronson.. and Cedar Key was always fun to visit.. 35 minutes in the other direction.

It's one of the great shames of our country.. that so many are literally brainwashed to vote against themselves and the kids.

I hope Parkland Survivor kids can change some of that.

mcar

[mcar]

28. We love the springs

Hate the heat and what R "leadership" has done to this state. We're examining our retirement options.

[Cha]

30. I've been to Springs hot and cold all over

the country.. they are so healing!

Unfortunately there are none on Kauai.

Your retirement is coming up so soon.. Best of everything in your future, mcar!

[brer cat]

22. Thank you very much for sharing, mcar.

We all need a reminder of how horrific the job of teaching has become, and how utterly asinine it would be to try and "solve" the problem by arming teachers. "Teachers are teachers, not soldiers" should be on bumper stickers.

[mcar]

24. I'd use that bumper sticker!

Great idea, brer cat.

[sheshe2]

25. You and yours have been there, mcar.

You know the terror first hand. This is not right and should not be considered the norm. It is far from normal.

We need to make this right, perhaps these young adults, our next generation can do what we have not.

[JI7]

27. and Soldiers Die also

war results in deaths.

that's the stupid thing about them claiming more people armed is going to save people. when soldiers go to war it's expected that there will be deaths. there is no gaurantee of them being safe as long as they are armed. even with all the military protection they have. and they are there specifically to fight and on alert to keep watch.

the whole thing is just so stuipd and nonsensical .

[mcar]

29. It is stupid and nonsensical

Just like bullet proof backpacks, the right will push any stupid idea to avoid any threat to their precious guns.